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  • 41

Scary Emirates 777 Aborted Crosswind Landing

Submitted
Aborted from Birmingham England, 777-300ER. Flight #039, check out the flight path on FlightAware. (www.youtube.com) More...

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odyluvs2av8
Ody Pond 12
This is what professional pilots are paid for!!! That approach looked well under control...it appears that he/she was holding the centerline and at the point where it didn't feel good anymore, he/she 'went around'. Fantastic! Well Done. Demonstrating as well that there is NEVER a moment in the approach and landing that you cannot execute a missed approach. If more 'so called Pro Pilots' wud swallow their egos and 'go-around' there wud be a lot less CFIT incidents to embarrass us all.
preacher1
preacher1 3
Well said
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 2
Actually it seemed that the plane was lining up with the left sideline of the runway rather the the centerline, would likely had a lot to do with the decision to go around. Had the plane been lined p with te centerline or slightly favoring the right sideline, there may not have been a call to go around at all.
preacher1
preacher1 5
Well, I bet that's where that wind came in. He had a horrible amount of CRAB cranked in there and the wind took him on over, necessitating the goround call
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
Yes, of course it's the wind that caused all that, and the reason we all watched the video.

The pilot had to keep the plane reasonably on the centerline. The wind may have been the reason the plane didn't stay on center. That would likely be why the plane went around.

The approach seemed stable enough, but if the pilot misgauged the wind or gusts put the plane in an unintended position, that would cause the go around.

Any pilot who's flown in strong winds, or boater who sailed in strong winds or kayaker who paddled in strong winds knows that in strong winds, there are strong gusts that can make the wind variable and unpredictable.

To my eye, the plane seemed to have drifted too far left (maybe gradually, but quite far out of position) just feet from the ground.

If one looks at the video, the engine thrust from the spool up blows across the runway, which shows how far out of position the plane had drifted by that point (just before the plane jets up away from the ground).
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
* BTW - by left I mean port side the pilot's perspective as the plane lands, not of the of video viewers (we see plane the plane go right).
Hammie5150
How is this scary? Looks like a pretty standard balked landing to me.
tmoritz
Tom Moritz 2
Considering the spool up time for those large turbines, how close the main gear was to the runway, and the fact that the pilot didn't even try to kick out the crab angle so the gear would line up with the runway, I'd say this pilot and all his passengers got lucky. If the right main landing gear had touched at that crab angle it would have been mangled.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Probably didn't kick the crab because he was already spooling. You are correct though in that it was a little close. LOL
preacher1
preacher1 1
I guess it was scary to you, huh!
preacher1
preacher1 7
I hate to see whoever categorized this as scary hang around the old KaiTak for a day or 2. If it don't feel good, try again or go someplace else, which is what he probably did. What's the big deal.
Moviela
Ric Wernicke 5
Made many landings at Kai Tak looking out the passenger window to see the centerline off the checkerboard. The first one was scary, but not because it was crosswind, it was because I was too high!
preacher1
preacher1 4
High as in altitude as a pilot or high on joy juice as a pax? LOL

[This poster has been suspended.]

Moviela
Ric Wernicke 2
I don't fly anything I can't push, but am one of the few recreational pilots that had a Kai Tak endorsement.
lfung
l fung 4
Not scary for pilots but scary for passengers sitting in the back with no idea what's going on.
klimchuk
klimchuk 3
I would rather see video from passenger seat on airplane when you can observe numbers on runway
That would be more scarier for sure
Cmard06
Cmard06 3
I am not scared.
sheka
mark tufts 2
that shows how good the pilot is as he/she did a great job on handling the situation
JENNYJET
I am very familiar with BHX and live quite close ( under down wind/base leg approach path to R33 ) and would just like to add something here.

Birmingham UK is well known locally and with those pilots regularly working the routes for it's crosswinds given the alignment of it's runway and the prevailing seasonal winds.

Not being originally built for civilian use, it's runways were created using the fabled wind roses by the relevant ministry during WW2 use, for the delivery of locally built Spitfire aircraft etc. it has over the following decades developed into a marvelous airport offering fantastic passenger experience and normally minimal delays due to it's uncongested locale. However, the main runway remained whilst runway 06/24 was closed in favour of taxiway and ramp use for the expansion of the airport.

Now, I once listened into ATC whilst on a 'spotting' day with my camera's and it was typically windy and one approaching pilot on his third approach complained to the controller about the winds and moaned about Birmingham's runway alignment...the controller replies ' it is rather sporting old chap!, I am sure you are well trained in such challenging touchdowns SIR!! *"Cleared to land"* or go to Gatwick!

I think the problem with Emirates B777-300 Thursday was the sheer size and PAX no. that gave the flight crew a touch of sanity and divert to Gatwick where the winds ( storm ) had yet to arrive.

The widely distributed footage did not surprise me because it is a common event here, smaller aircraft seem to manage last moment adjustment before touchdown but the bigger beasts have greater forces acting against risk and the pilots on this flight should be commended.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Well, the "bigger beasts" can react quicker than you think as there is just that much more size to catch and play with all that wind, but there is a point where a pilot must say enough and either try again or divert. LOL
JENNYJET
I think I was trying to say the bigger the sail, the greater the forces exerted by way of wind....the rudder and the surface area of the wings etc. similar to big clippers sailing upon the great oceans before powered flight came to be!

Did I read you correctly sir? A A319 can better deal with a force 10 than a A340 perhaps
preacher1
preacher1 3
Well, you are correct about a bigger sail but that also equates to a bigger control area as well. Some Aircraft are more responsive than others but a pilot should know what he has, i.e, not sure about the bus but a 757 is a lot more responsive than a 767 and while the forces would be the same, each plane would react a little different, slower or faster, but in about the same way, and a pilot just needs to know what he has hold of. Does that make any sense?
JENNYJET
Yes sir, I think I understand you. I just cannot help noticing how, visually, a large aircraft such as a B747 or A380 'appear' to lumber up into the air or likewise touchdown because of it's sheer size compared to the usual small fry such as A320/B737 that appear to move quickly. The surface area of wings and rudder suggest to me that if engaged on a tricky windy approach they are more likely to play safe whilst the smaller aircraft tend to play the wind under wonderful stewardship of the crew. I usually always see the widebodies go-around because of the high PAX whilst see the small craft 'go for it' because they are bunny hops on 8 cycles per day etc, Ryanair/Easyjet/Southwest come to mind and usually successfully.

Does that make any sense to you sir?
preacher1
preacher1 1
Yeah, it does. The short answer is that they are bigger and have more power under wing and they seem to lumber because of their size; a good example is that DREAMLIFTER on short field take off last week; it appeared effortless, yet took meticulous planning on the part of the flight crew; but in a nutshell they have that larger area and more power; not saying the others are underpowered but the big ones have a higher thrust/weight ratio. By the same token, that may be one reason you see the smaller ones "go for it" as it would not have the same exact effect on them as their larger brethren, and then that takes us back to the handling issue stated earlier
JENNYJET
I would also add that I have noticed that the Royal Air Force use Birmingham for the occasional 'touch and go' during stormy periods for training apart from the sad Medevac flights that come through here en route to the Defence Medical facility here in Birmingham and then home to Brize Norton for the remainder of our soldiers.
preacher1
preacher1 2
This clip even made the National News on CNN this morning. 2 tries at Birmingham, diverted to Heathrow but cold not land there; finally went to Gatwick.

[This poster has been suspended.]

preacher1
preacher1 1
Now Phil. LOL
JULESY
Which lunatic categorised this as "scary"; don't sensationalise something that is clearly "all in a days work" just to get readers
JENNYJET
Please open your mind if not your eyes. I detest journalists and find them to be somewhat inept even on a Sunday but sometimes, citizen journalists , 'ordinary You Tube subscribers', do not always have degree standard command of their own native language.

To the uninitiated, this was a 'scary' incident. To seasoned observers and those with an in depth knowledge of aviation and aeronautical physics, it is indeed 'all in a day's work'.

The footage was submitted by a regular spotter just happening to be there and 'picked up' by the mainstream media and it is to those people you should, with respect, direct your bile.
siriusloon
siriusloon 1
Well said, thank you.

[This poster has been suspended.]

[This poster has been suspended.]

andriy17
Good flying !! Whoever has METAR for that time please post.
iainrushman
Iain Rushman 1
Preacher
I saw on another site (can't find it now, sorry), that he did another around (or else this was 2nd attempt) then diverted to LGW. If I find the article again will post on here
preacher1
preacher1 2
10-4, I appreciate. I knew he had to do one or divert. It looks like he was lined and set good at first and a big wind gust got him close in. Notice how he went to the left there pretty close in. That wind was ugly. He had a terrible amount of CRAB cranked in there. LOL
williambaker08
william baker 1
This landing was perfect till the pilot decided to go around. He could have finished the landing but choose to go around. He made a good decision and it was a great go around. As for the person who said that plane can't land at a 45 degree angle I have to say it can and has when Boeing certified it they landed in several times at that angle. Also if the crosswind would have been twice of what the 777 could handle the pilot would not have attempted the approach and landing and I am probably sure they would have closed the airport because if it being dangerous at the time.


http://www.youtube.com/embed/KewDaYDG1i0?autoplay=1
ricarlos
Horacio Leiva 1
Excelente maniobra del piloto y la toma de decisión de elevar el avión casi en tierra,,,,,
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 0
The cow jumped over the moon too...
preacher1
preacher1 1
I hope you get all this ice crap we just had down here. It's still dang cold. LOL
skylloyd
skylloyd 1
Yeah, we just had Artic Blast 1&2, it's now headed to the south and east. 12 degrees is not my cup of tea here in Tacoma. LOL
preacher1
preacher1 1
Well, we are getting the last breath of it here tonite. DFW area caught it, we had ice and less than 10 degrees up here in AR. Actually we had about a half inch of freezing rain and about 4 inches of sleet on top of it with a dusting of snow. While most of that is gone we are having a round of freezing fog up here tonite. It may get above freezing tomorrow. This is definitely not an Arkansas cup of tea. LOL
billykid05
billykid05 1
36 knt component for landing...40 for takeoff? w/o Safety breach. or has this been discussed to death...can't find here.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Somebody questioned it down here. If it wasn't at that it was close. LOL
GaryinPennsylvania
Gary Roberts 1
Really all?????
How 'bout ya think of the passengers who have no idea what FlightAware Squawks is and hasn't watched a bajillion videos of TO & Landings on YouTube?
And then put them of the right-hand side of an airplane flying SIDEWAYS (perception IS reality) towards the runway?!
Walk a mile (or sit for 45 seconds) in their shoes.
preacher1
preacher1 2
Done it both ways and either way it ain't no fun. BUT, from the pax standpoint not knowing better, "WE'RE GONNA CRASH; HE's CROOKED!!!!!!!!!!!"
GaryinPennsylvania
Gary Roberts 2
Yep. That's all I was saying.
I've sat next to passengers who freaked during a glass-smooth approach just because of the subtle shudder of the gear deploying!

Or AFTER already on the ground, but never having heard/experienced thrust reversers before.
It's funny how easily we take for granted our knowledge and familiarity with 'all things aviation'
preacher1
preacher1 1
Well, it is a whole 'nuther experience. I flew as a pax maybe once per year. It was one thing knowing what was going on, but you still have a feeling of apprehension when you are sitting in that back end like John Q.Public. And as you say, there is total panic at times for the simplest things. Most flight crews don't take this into consideration or scoff at it.
Av8nut
Must be a journalist who came up with this title. (yawn)
Jackcochrangt65
Jack Cochran -1
Very poor piloting skills! The appropriate amount of right rudder would have made this approach (and landing) a nom-event.
preacher1
preacher1 2
Were you there Jack?
Jackcochrangt65
Jack Cochran 0
Video speaks a thousand words! Little or no attempt to align. This event, along with the crash of Asiana 214 and Air France 447 is clear evidence that basic piloting skills are generally not what they should be.
preacher1
preacher1 2
Well, believe as you will as neither one of us were there, but he was trying to land ahead of a storm and didn't make it. Same results at Heathrow and wound up going into Gatwick no problem, so idk. Looked to me like he was lined and a gust got him close in so he spooled up and went again.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
To my eye the plane seemed to have drifted too far left into the wind. I don't see the plane lined up with the centerline at all.
preacher1
preacher1 1
You are correct in what you see there but the video doesn't start that far back. For whatever reason, there was a drift and hence the go around or diversion. I don't know if this was his 1st or 2nd attempt but according to another article here he went on to Heathrow with the same results and finally went into Gatwick with no problems. I really think that had his piloting skills not been up to par, the results would have been different. I really couldn't tell how much CRAB he had cranked in there but it was a bunch, and really more than normal.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
Yes, that pilot had the plane crabbing cranked all the way up. Had the pilot reduced the crabbing slowly over the last portion of flight, the plane would've lined up fairly nicely.

I can't tell you how qualified the pilot is or not. What we can see and what has been reported is that the pilot tried more than one crosswind landing (possibly at more than one airport) and wasn't able to land until getting to an airport that unlike Birmingham has runways that line up better with the prevailing seasonal winds. Although, pilots who want to practice their crosswind landings should pick up flights into BHX.

But, either the pilot was having a particularly bad day (wind wise) or just isn't too proficient in crosswind landings and needs more practice. In this case, I'd recommend the simulator first before trying again with passengers in the back.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Well, either way he aborted that landing. Locals said he was trying to land ahead of a storm front and apparently didn't make it. They said he went into Gatwick, where it had not yet arrived, which takes us back to your comment so idk.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Well, more than I would have liked anyway. LOL
preacher1
preacher1 1
The Air Force done it right though but they almost had to on the BUFF as it was so big, but their drivers set the gear on the runway heading and then kicked the bird to wherever they needed. I don't know what their components were but one of their BUFF drivers told me they could spread that gear and plane 45 degrees if they had to. All it really did was save having to make that last minute correction before touchdown.
Jackcochrangt65
Jack Cochran 0
The following paragraph was included a press release about this incident: "Although the Boeing 777 landing Birmingham story is worth gasping over, other planes encountered the same crosswinds that day and managed to set down on the tarmac without incident."

I maintain that any pilot with a modicum skill in x-wind landings should have been able to safely execute this approach and landing.
owenomahony
Owen O'Mahony -1
Would I be right in thinking that this was an attempt to land outside the published cross wind limits - not once but twice?
preacher1
preacher1 2
Well, the video doesn't show a go around but he either did or divert. No biggie. Looks like he did it right

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