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Justin Trudeau to Boeing: Stop suing Bombardier

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Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has renewed his threat to scrap a potential deal to buy fighter jets from Boeing. (money.cnn.com) More...

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SmokedChops
SmokedChops 14
no love for Boeing after the tanker debacle. They are the first to cry foul if things don't land in their lap. In the past, Boeing simply bought out the competitors. [i.e. McDonnell-Douglas,
DeHavilland Canada] Bombardier not want to sell, perhaps? "If we can't beat them or buy them, let's sue them" Boeing has absolutely NO massive projects underwritten by the US government...{snark mode 'off'}
clbea
Claude B. 6
Most Aviation journalist are very critical (negatively) on Boeing. They understand the problem very well and support Bombardier. In other words Boeing’s reputation is negative worldwide with that story and Bombardier is a beneficiary to the free publicity from Boeing. Lol!

Boeing is afraid of C Series high quality and positive press around the world’s aviation.
scott8733
scott8733 11
Fact is, I'm not a fan of Trudeau, but frankly, Boeing (and Airbus for that matter) were asleep at the wheel, busy figuring out ways to stretch their bread and butter single aisle machines- to stuff upwards of 200 miserable poor souls into them.

Bombardier, meanwhile, develops an alternative A/C for the 110-130 pax market, and Delta smelled blood in the water to pounce on a manufacturer desperate to have a headliner...beating the crap out of Bombardier in the process, in order to get the price they wanted to phase out the Mad Dogs.

It's not like Canada won't buy US fighter jets. Last time I checked, Northrup Grumman makes them as well.

Like it or not, loss leaders occur in all facets of business, gang. Free markets allow for it, particularly when a company is trying to get a new product of theirs into circulation-even if it means selling at little to no margin. That's a company's decision to make.
RRKen
Kenneth Schmidt 11
Scott, you are correct in that there is no competition here. Bombardier makes something that Boeing and Airbus do not. It becomes the customers choice to purchase what they want.

If you can negotiate a price, all the better. Nothing illegal about that, bulk purchasers do it all the time.
Mephistopheles
Mephistopheles 2
And Boeing will be so pissed when COMAC purchases 30% or more of the CSeries Holding from Quebec govt and Bombardier and inject some $ to expand the factory and launch the CS500 & CS700 with China placing some hundreds units orders right of the bat...
clbea
Claude B. 0
That is a 10 years away dream about CS500 and CS700. Not before.
leonkay
Leon Kay 5
Thumbs up for Bombardier and Trudeau!
abowland
Andy Bowland 3
Kind of a kettle/pot situation for Boeing. They don't like Bombardier selling jets in America yet Boeing likes selling 777 and 787 to the ME carriers who completely ignore the Open Sky agreement and via financing with the ExIm bank. And also loves selling 787 to NAI who is flying a flag of convenience, for regulations, crews, flight attendants, taxes, and so on.

What is it Boeing? It seems like you just hate fair competition.
yr2012
matt jensen 1
They bought out the competition and feel that their way is the only way. Sour grapes.
GraemeSmith
Graeme Smith 2
Let's go really back in time to the unfair WWII subsidies from the US Government to Boeing to build the Seattle factories and the "agreement" between the allies where the US would build all the heavy lift and the rest of the allies the bulk of the fighters - thus giving the US a jump in the post war market.

And the UK sharing the results of the Comet metal fatigue findings for the benefit of aviation and the detriment of its commercial jet business

and the US making up rules to keep Concorde out of the US because it didn't have anything similar

and....

Payback time for Boeing.......

:-)
GraemeSmith
Graeme Smith 2
Spot tongue firmly in my cheek......
organfreak
Scott Hawthorn 1
Why were the WWII subsidies "unfair"? Without that speedy ramp-up, we might have lost the war.
maxsmodels
max kohnke 1
There is what is legal and what is smart. Trudeau is such a sicialist snowflake that he thinks he can intimidate a powerhouse like Boeing with a threat to not buy a single squadron of Hornets when many times that much money is at stake on the commercial side. That ain't gonna work. Ironically Bombardier sued Embraer about 15 years ago for dumping E-145s on the market to compete with CRJs (and they were guilty too). Now it is there turn. All of these companies play hardball and then whine when it is their time ine barrel. Boeing tries to rip off the US government with the tanker scandal, Airbus gets subsidies from the EU, Embraer from the Brazilian government and now the Canadians MAY be guilty of dumping. If so then Boeing is right to sue but if you have read this far then you this ain't 'bout, it's 'bout winnin' and winnin' big cuz that mean money...big money! Bombardier product dumps, Boeing sues, Trudeau threatens and the dance goes on.
21voyageur
Dan Chiasson 1
Could this nudge Bombardier towards an Airbus "business alliance"? Airbus has been sniffing around Bombardier for years. Even more so should Boeing's legal moves have an impact on Bombardier's results. Hope not, 3 way competition (actually 4 should Embraer be considered) is better in the long run. Boeing got caught with their pants down and are acting like typical schoolyard bullies. (sound familiar re: DT?)
clbea
Claude B. 1
I don’t think Airbus is interesting to Bombardier (Aviation) but rather to get copyrights on Bombardier’s innovations.
21voyageur
Dan Chiasson -1
therefore buy-out big enough to get debt holders (gov't Quebec, others) and shareholders happy and Airbus gets the blueprints and rights. Same difference.
Mephistopheles
Mephistopheles 2
Quebec govt is 49% shareholder of the cseries holding, not debt holder
clbea
Claude B. 1
China is very interested with Bombardier Inc. (Aviation an Transport) because Bombardier Inc is the biggest world transport (aviation + rail) Europe don’t want the China there to get the Rail system to compete with Alstom and BBD.
Bombardier Inc. is the main key for China to be around the world strong and fast.
gerardogodoy
gerardo godoy 0
Trudeau---buy your fighters in France and help your leftist buddy.
clbea
Claude B. 4
Why not? I agree!
Mephistopheles
Mephistopheles 3
In fact dassault just increased their number of lobbyists in Ottawa for the Rafale. Via fliegerfaust.com
aghume
Alan Hume 1
Yes Trudeau. Given that eastern Canada is such a strong Francophile area, why not support your home country. Go for the Rafale. It might only be Gen 4+, but it's more than a match to the F/A-18. You could do a lot worse!
Moviela
Ric Wernicke -7
Canada has long used unfair rules to keep US citizens from working there, and absurd taxes to prevent US companies from competing there.

I think if Trudeau does not need the fighters, I am sure other countries will keep the production lines humming.

Boeing is on the right side of equity. Canada should not be allowed to dump planes in the US in order to keep Canadians working.
rochcomeau
Roch Comeau 10
Have you ever seen how hard it is for a foreigner to work in the US (despite the FTA)?

What absurd taxes (that only apply to foreign companies) are you referring to?
clbea
Claude B. 4
”Imposing tariffs on the C Series program will negatively impact over 22,000 high-skill jobs in the USA.”
Wrote by an American. https://www.airinsight.com/us-manufacturing-impact/
RedentorP
Exactly.
maxsmodels
max kohnke 0
Let us try that without all of the errors......

There is what is legal and then there is what is smart. Trudeau is such a socialist snowflake that he thinks he can intimidate a powerhouse like Boeing from taking a legal action with a threat to not buy a single squadron of Hornets (when many times that much money is at stake on the commercial side). Not too smart.

Ironically Bombardier sued Embraer about 15 years ago for product dumping E-145s on the market to compete with CRJs and Now it is there turn. All of these companies play hardball and then whine when it is their time in the barrel. Boeing tries to rip off the US government with the tanker scandal, Airbus gets subsidies from the EU, Embraer from the Brazilian government and now the Canadians may be guilty of dumping so the PM cries foul (nothing to see here folks, move along, move along).

If Canada is product dumping then Boeing is right to sue but if you have read this far then you already know that "this ain't 'bout-that; it's 'bout winnin' and winnin' big cuz that means money...big money! " It is a rather nasty form of 'combat ballet' (otherwise known as business). Bombardier product dumps, Boeing sues, Trudeau threatens and the dance goes on.
strickerje
Would be nice to have an edit option here, eh?
BruceMcLachlan
Bruce McLachlan -2
Boeing is actually doing us Canadians a favor.
Selling jets for half there cost and using taxpayer subsides to prop up a poorly run company.
A lot of this information is finally becoming public, our government cant continue to hide it.
Thank You Boeing.
phurford
Paul Hurford 0
Boeings tactics are wrong. When I fly, I prefer Boeing or Bombardier. That said, I avoid flights using Airbus equipment, and would never fly on a new Airbus Model for at least 18 months after a positive track record is established. Bombardier deserves respect as an aircraft manufacturer, and concentrates on reliability before releasing any new model. I give Boeing the same kudos. Corporate fighting on this level level is a real negative for Bombardier. I don't give a damn about Trudeau, or Trumps politics. My comments focus on the aircraft and my feeling of safety in the air. Bombardier has done many clever things with its aircraft, and they keep getting better at it.
phurford
Paul Hurford 2
Sorry, I was incorrect in stating, "...is a real negative for Bombardier." I should have said, " "...is a real negative for Boeing." Sorry!
strickerje
Jeffrey Stricker -1
Regardless of the specifics of the dispute, Trudeau's reaction seems to set a dangerous precedent - he's saying that bringing up a complaint will result in retaliation in an unrelated deal. That's not how international trade agreements are supposed to work - let the arbitrators decide the merits of the case rather than trying to bully the complainant into submission.
21voyageur
Dan Chiasson 1
Sure, are you suggesting that Trudeau should have respect for international trade deals much in the same manner as Donald Trump? Boeing is emboldened by Trump's hard-on for the F18 and implicit support. If international trade deals are to be respected, why is Boeing attempting to strong arm the Canadians? They do not have the product. Period. Why are they yapping? Delta chose Bombardier because they have the right aircraft at the right time. Boeing lost. They were asleep at the switch and do not want another Airbus situation (when Boeing was once again arrogant and ignorant of another company's (and not American to boot!) company's desire to compete. IMHO, over time, this will consolidate to a duopoly. Who gets Bombardier, who gets Embraer?
strickerje
I haven't really been following the specifics of this case; my point was only that in a society with agreed upon multinational trade rules and procedures for mediating disputes, this isn't the right way to handle it. I didn't say anything about Trump - not sure what any of this has to do with him?
21voyageur
Dan Chiasson 1
If Trump had respect and even an understanding of international trade and the associated political ramifications, this Boeing dispute would never have seen the light of day. His ineptitude has allowed Boeing to act the bully.

Let's move on.
strickerje
Jeffrey Stricker -2
None of which actually addresses what I said, but ok...

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

21voyageur
Dan Chiasson 5
Back under your rock. You have no idea about the dynamics in play. "zero, nada"
mjginsrq
martin galea 9
you are the joke moron. how about the US paying nothing, zero, nada to have it's northern border patrolled by Canadians to ensure that you are able to continue to speak broken English? your perception that you somehow make Canada safer is a joke considering that the US is responsible for bringing those who wish to inflict damage to our borders. don't make me give examples.

you are an idiotic fool like the one you elected who, as I type is repeating the same mistakes.
micmor2004
M Moreau -2
Much like yerself I presume.
N.B. The misspelled word was intentional; you will probably have to google N.B. for clarification also no doubt.
Mephistopheles
Mephistopheles 1
What does New Brunswick has to do with his misspelled words ;-)

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