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  • 34

Lion Air plans to cancel the billion-dollar Boeing order and switch to Airbus

Submitted
Jakarta - The distrust caused by the second Boeing 737 MAX 8 crash is spreading. More and more countries to impose flight-ban for the aircraft due to safety concerns. After Australia today, British authority has also banned Boeing 737 MAX flights on its airspace. (airlinerwatch.com) More...

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Greg77FA
Greg77FA 17
Boeing is a fool not to get out in front of this. Act - temporarily ground, provide daily updates, open your analysis for review. Be transparent, or risk losing Trust. As once that's gone, all else does not matter.
waterfall925
Greg77FA I agree, except about grounding the airplane. We all want answers, especially here in the United States. The jet airliner has become, by default, THE mass transportation in the United States. We don't have high-speed rail. We've opted for the airplane. What should be gone is the tight-lipped "no speculation, wait for the report"" defense that the industry tries to hide behind. if Boeing wants to save the 737 MAX, it had best make sure that the airplane doesn't go the way of the Electra.
tf51d
Thomas Cain 6
Once there is a diagnosed system design flaw that caused a fatal accident in any plane as there was in the Lion Air crash, it is irresponsible not to ground the aircraft type until A. It's fixed, or B. there is a reasonable workaround to the problem. I said this after the Lion Air Crash. Now we add another 149 deaths in what most likely will turn out to be the cause of the this accident. Most Countries have now done what needed to be done to prevent this from happening again. Is the US really going to wait for a third fatal accident, before it acts? Not grounding this plane at this point until the problem is resolved, is nothing less then playing Russian Roulette with peoples lives.
waterfall925
Thomas Cain now the 737 MAX is grounded by the FAA and Boeing, after satellite data showed enoiugh track similarities beween Lion and Ethiopian to raise the bar beyond the assumption of pilot error/system misconfiguration. in light of the new data it is altogether appropriate that the MAX is grounded. My objection before to groiunding was that there were as of that writing not enough data to justify it. CNN already thinks it is running the country, and i objected to the latest media mob pile-on. However, in this case the MAX should be thoroughly vetted, the manuals rewritten, the software completely updated, and all pertinent training be accomplished before the MAX is returned to service. This is a real black eye for Boeing. They're going to have to take their lumps.
Viperguy46
Jesse Carroll 1
Why didn't the off duty pilot flying on the Lion bird the day before it's fatal flight tell somebody about it?
bbabis
Bill Babis 1
He probably did. They supposedly worked on the problem between flights. The next crew had every chance to ask the previous crew about the problem.
bribeth
Brian Neuman 1
Similarities does not mean causation considering that the data of what actually caused the 2nd crash has not been released. This is not to say that they are not caused by the same thing, whether it is pilot error due to lack of training, mechanical malfunction or any other types of causes. It is suspect that there were 2 accidents within a short period of time, but I will still withhold judgement until actual facts are released, not speculation, conjecture and emotional response.
tf51d
Thomas Cain 1
So we'll wait until 140+ or 170+ more people are killed in the next crash. Come on Listen to yourself. The FAA finally did the right thing. At the very least it will lite a fire in Boeing to come up with a workable solution as soon as they can. Remember how fast they solved the Lithium Battery problem on the 787 once it was grounded.

bribeth
Brian Neuman 1
Im not suggesting that we wait for a possible 3rd incident before action is taken. I have no problem with the grounding of the type to determine what the problem is, in fact I think it is a prudent move. I just wont personally join the mob mentality about this until we have facts about what the cause of the most recent accident is AND if it is in fact related.
bbabis
Bill Babis 4
Well played, using the term mob mentality in place of the correct term majority opinion to make yourself feel better.
lynx318
lynx318 2
Brian is right, until investigators determine cause and/or link both accidents to same fault, fleet must be grounded, no problem. But jumping on the bandwagon going off at Boeing, (who I bet are bending over backwards to assist investigators, they'll want to sort this out quick too) will not make things better. Instead of a sound majority well thought out opinion, all we are seeing here is a Boeing lynch mob.
bbabis
Bill Babis 1
Boeing knew the problem and is bending over backwards to keep litigation and liability to a minimum like any entity should. They are not bad guys. They just really screwed up.
lynx318
lynx318 1
Doesn't everyone.
Viperguy46
Jesse Carroll 1
Most Countries have now done what needed to be done to prevent this from happening again.
WRONG, they should have trained their pilots how to fly the airplane and not depend on Automatic everything to work 100 %of the time!
Tragic, by all means, fixable, absolutely!
Oh, did you hear that a Lion or the other carrier had an off duty pilot fix the same problem while flying on the first 737 M that crashed? He knew what was wrong, why didn't the rest of their pilots know?
mrdot
LW P 11
Now reports of American pilots experiencing the same problems have surfaced. This is turning into a big scandal for Boeing.
airpound69
Enrique Silva -2
It’s not Boeings fault. Any aircraft can have issues, the airline is supposed ground the aircraft
SkyAware123
SkyAware123 3
yeah it is. They decided to hack up the 737 in a shitty way. They should have designed it from a clean sheet. Now they will pay the price.
chalet
chalet 3
Right on, man. Airlines based in the US, Europe and elsewhere pressured Boeing to come up with a clean sheet replacement for the 757 but Boeing refused because the cost of developing the 787 went up from 6 billion to 28 billion or so preventing them to design a "new 757" and instead they over-stretched and over-designed in general the 737. In May of 1969 I flew from Zurich to Frankfurt on a Lufthansa 737-200. I bet that plane was less than 60% the size of the Maxes which are an overfed variety grown on steroids.
bribeth
Brian Neuman 7
Well you gotta do what you gotta do. Gonna take a while to get those aircraft. If there is a problem with the 737, it will be fixed before they ever get their 1st Airbus.
SmokedChops
SmokedChops 6
spot on. They will go to the end of the waiting line for their 320NEO. How many thousand back ordered already?
TorstenHoff
Torsten Hoff 8
I wouldn't be surprised if it's just posturing and nothing more than a ploy to get a better deal from Boeing on the 737 MAX.

Also, the threat to cancel the order shows their customers that they are concerned for their safety and buys them good will with anyone flying in the immediate future, but by the time the planes show up (whether they are Boeing or Airbus), nobody will care who made the plane they fly on.
bbabis
Bill Babis 2
It looks like a squeeze play. I don't blame them.
shenghaohan
Shenghao Han 2
Just as the guys working for Boeing think 2019 is a good year... (777X roll out and flight test)
waterfall925
In Asia "face" is important and so Lion will never admit ANY culpability for its 737 MAX accident. i hope this teaches Boeing a valuable lesson in evaluating who exactly its customer base should be. Maybe a proven exisiting pilot base, together with an existing training/maintenance infrastructure should be in place before Boeing puts its brand out there. Finally, the record of Indonesian operation of the Airbus is not that thrilling.
Dl8698
David Loh -1
Get off your white supreme race attitude. Just because the airline and pilots were non white doesn't mean they were the ones responsible. Would you say the exact same thing if the First crash involved an American aircraft flown by white men? Boeing killed all those people. FAA can be considered complicit in killing the people on second crash for failing to ground the type affer the first crash. Not the fault of the airlines or the pilots.
Viperguy46
Jesse Carroll 1
Why didn't the pilot who saved a crash on the Lion tell somebody about the problem one day before the fatal flight!
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
I suppose he is asking himself why didn't he do more to alert the company of the problem, and he probably will be asking himself that question for the rest of his life.

[This poster has been suspended.]

AirtranPAX
jose Barrera 5
Not at all good points. They are racist and infuriating. Are you saying that these accidents wouldn't have happen if the crew was white, blond and blue-eyed?
nasdisco
Chris B 2
It would be far easier to downgrade to the 737NG than switch to Airbus.
AirtranPAX
jose Barrera 2
Then what would you say about the Costa Rican pilot on a brand new 737 was hit by a massive storm and he was able to land the plane without any power on a levee? He isn't white.
CorralesRoy
Roy Corrales 1
You might been talking of TACA Flight 110 piloted by Salvadorian, not Costa Rican, Captain Carlos Dardano. Saludos desde Costa Rica :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TACA_Flight_110
chalet
chalet 1
Lets cut off the BS: Boeing did not have the resources for a clean sheet 757 design replacement and kept on growing good ole 737 a feet per day without realizing that they had created a monster on steroids. Boeing forced the hapless FAA inspectors to test and issue approvals of virtually everything by delegation. Just wait tight for the ensuing multibillion dollar settlements, fines, penalties and lawyer fees that both Boeing and the FAA are going to cough up.
speshulk99
john kilcher 1
What an absurd statement.
sonolisto
High time for Airbus CS500!
Pat1990
Pat Tolaj 1
Meh, they'll be gaining better aircraft anyway. Boeing needs to get their shit together.
airpound69
Enrique Silva 2
Who says there’s a fdesign flaw with the MaX? We have no idea as to what caused the Ethiopian crash
joelwiley
joel wiley -1
I'm sure Airbus will give them a good deal, say 10% off list...if they also take a couple A380s.
chalet
chalet 3
Haven´t you read that both Boeing and Airbus sell their jets with deep discounts, some in the order of 50% off list depending on the number of units, say 20 aircraft at a pop.
joelwiley
joel wiley 5
darn, the sarcasm font is broken again...
bbabis
Bill Babis 3
Let me know what fixes it Joel. Mine never seems work either.
lynx318
lynx318 1
SNERK!!
chalet
chalet 0
Nice sarcasm, tell it to stand up comeedians and they will love you (sarcasm?. noooooo)
jmanley20
John Manley -3
probably a smart move since all they require FOs to have is a CPL and 200 hours TT. Airbus pretty much flies itself so its a much better plane to start on for sure. Not everyone can fly the best plane in the world :)
bentwing60
bentwing60 1
"Airbus pretty much flies itself", until something fails and they go into "alternate law" mode. Then let's see how effective the 200 hour wonder is that I can assure you
in the ET302 accident, in a Boeing, was the "last one to the scene of the accident". Most folks are unaware that single pilot 121 ops. are already here with ab initio FOs filling cockpits around the world. They never shook hands with the new hire at a freight operation that claimed "300 hrs." in a Learjet and couldn't close the door. And the US, GBR pilot help wanted boards are littered with lucrative offers for Captains to fly with them in 3rd world, to include china, airlines. It ain't about the golf clubs.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

royhunte92
Roy Hunte 2
Don't forget Airbus had some control issues with the early A320s as well. It may just be some software that needs help. Hopefully it doesn't turn out to be structural or mechanical, then it would be a problem.
shenghaohan
Shenghao Han 3
Structural or mechanical, highly unlikely.
Software bug / poor human-machine interaction, very likely. Boeing two cases ( a 737 classic and 777 crash ) cited poor human-machine interaction already...
SkyAware123
SkyAware123 1
They use software to disguise a problem with the design. And the software is most likely buggy.

[This poster has been suspended.]

lynx318
lynx318 1
Exactly, look what happened years ago with the DC10, all parties floundered around until those damn hatch locks were fixed correctly. No-one has a clue what's wrong yet but everyone is ready to throw blame so easily.
airpound69
Enrique Silva -2
Flies an airplane with a known fault, pilots do not use the appropriate memory items and then blames the manufacturer? Hmmmm... smells like a good ole PR scam to cover up their mess. No crash is caused by a single factor.

[This poster has been suspended.]

bbabis
Bill Babis 2
Don't get carried away there FlyBy. Many of them are out there helping to guarantee your freedom to say that.

[This poster has been suspended.]

bentwing60
bentwing60 1
5 days on the site, extreme anti-Boeing rants every third post. "Only a fool would step onto a Boeing aircraft again. They are death traps and people are finally waking up." ATP from phantom university that I'd bet he has never sat in. Folks, if you acknowledge and welcome insta-trolls to your site, they will continue to bedevil you and me. Moderator?
bbabis
Bill Babis -1
"Old Smokey" You sure did. I was just suggesting you be a little more gentle with it.
lynx318
lynx318 -1
...and yet the 747 series went for 50 odd years with barely a whimper of any real mechanical fault. As for bombing the sh#@ out of Cong and collateral civilians at the behest of a crooked government, you're standing on shaky ground.

[This poster has been suspended.]

joelwiley
joel wiley 0
Thank you for your service, FlyByWyre USA. That's something neither of us heard back in the day.
Is there any current a/c manufacturer whose product you feel safe in using?

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