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Rumor has it that Airbus might cooperate with UPS and Amazon for the freighter version of A330neo

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Toulouse - Airbus expects Amazon and UPS to include A330neo in their freighter fleets. A full freighter with modern engines could spur the program and spark new competition with Boeing. (airlinerwatch.com) More...

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bizprop
bizprop 4
Amazon doesn't own any aircraft right now. Their B767 fleet is operated by two contract operators Atlas Air & Cargo Aircraft Management/ATI.
jeffreyh8020
they do own there planes, they are just operated by other airlines. Just like Boeing's dreamlifters, they own them but Atlas operates them.
djames225
djames225 4
Um sorry but they don't directly own any of the craft..they wet lease aircraft from Atlas Air, ATSG (which they hold a minority interest) and ABX Air.
toolguy105
toolguy105 1
You are correct sir. But Amazon is looking at purchasing aircraft and operating its own Air Cargo system.
djames225
djames225 1
Amazon already operates its own air cargo system. It's called Amazon Air. It was originally Amazon Prime Air nut they removed the Prime because it was causing confusion when talking about the Amazon Prime Air drone delivery system concept. They do not own any of their own craft and have no plans for such right now. Why own when you can wet lease.
They have also built a parcel sort hub in Cinncinati area and fly out of Hebron Kentucky airport.
toolguy105
toolguy105 0
We are getting s bit stuck on semantics here. Amazon will need more plane to complete there own logistics system. Those 40 planes being discussed are for Amazon who will buy some and then in some manner they end up on a lease back program from the operator.
TimeRanger
Randy Shereda 0
rapidwolve - Amazon will have to Significantly increase its own air operation if they are to ever be able to handle their own shipments as they still use other carriers for the majority of their packages.
djames225
djames225 1
Amazon Air is not up to full capacity yet..yes they will have to increase down the road through wet lease..what is being discussed here, and I'm not stuck on semantics, is the fact Amazon does not own any of their craft nor intend to at present time..it's a heck of a lot cheaper to wet lease with known cargo operator(s) for the time being.
TimeRanger
Randy Shereda 1
rapidwolve - what I have to wonder is how well they will comply with FAA rules. For each of the past several years, they have paid $1 million or more in fines to the FAA for shipping packages that were non-air compliant, with UPS and Fedex. The greatest number of these violations were for undeclared or prohibited flammable liquids. It is one thing to tender such things to other carriers, but when you haul them on your own airline, you may run the risk of losing your operating certificate.
MultiComm
MultiComm 0
Wet lease? I don't think Atlas or ATG pay for fuel. I may be wrong but pretty sure it is a dry lease at least on the Atlas side (via Titan Aircraft Leasing)
djames225
djames225 1
"A wet lease is a leasing arrangement whereby one airline (the lessor) provides an aircraft, complete crew, maintenance, and insurance (ACMI) to another airline or other type of business acting as a broker of air travel (the lessee), which pays by hours operated. The lessee provides fuel and covers airport fees, and any other duties, taxes, etc" A dry lease with CMI is considered a wet lease..a normal dry lease is much like an auto lease..there is the car, there are the keys, you are responsible for everything else including damage so no scratches..dont know why Atlas dry leased them to Titan then wet leased them back to Atlas..weird setup
vblue0115
Wonder how long it will take Boeing to start whining about unfair competition?
TimeRanger
Randy Shereda 1
At least Airbus is thinking ahead for this market. Boeing seems to be sleeping at the wheel. The only aircraft in Boeing's line up to compete is the 767 and they - for whatever reason - have drastically curtailed production of that workhorse.
vblue0115
If I'm not mistaken Boeing is retro-fitting the 747's for freight use.
TimeRanger
Randy Shereda 3
Yes, That program has been around for a LONG time. The end result is called the BCF - Boeing Converted Freighter - they are also doing the same thing with some 767s - which UPS has orders for several. Even a couple of UPS' 747-400s are BCFs
E1craZ4life
Edward Bardes -3
Airbus would need to develop an A380 freighter to fully compete in the cargo industry.
djames225
djames225 4
An A380 freighter would never fly
mikehe
Nice pun - brightened my Friday morning! Am I right that the 747 was originally designed as a freighter, after losing the USAF C-5 contract? As the USA, sadly, tries to retreat behind walls of tariffs, I suspect that several countries would, on principle, decide to look beyond American products.
Now, realistically, the timescale of developing a revised airframe may exceed the presidential election cycle, but any manufacturer would grab any chance to shift more airframes profitably. But how long does it take to blank out a set of fuselage windows? (joke!)
djames225
djames225 1
The design of the 747, itself, was not what Boeing had intended when it went up against McDonnell Douglas and Lockheed for the CX heavy logistics role but it was its start. Joe Sutter took that initial design and ran with it because he wanted a craft that could carry either passengers or freight.
USAF wanted a freighter capable of having a nose load door which meant placing the cockpit above the main deck. That is what started the 747 ball rolling.
toolguy105
toolguy105 1
As I understand it the 747 was developed for Pan Am as a passenger aircraft. Yes, it did compete for the C5A contract but lost out to the high wing aircraft from Lockheed.

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