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Trump attacks F-35 maker for 'out of control' costs

Submitted
Here we go again. Donald Trump has tweeted another critique about a major defense company -- and the stock immediately fell. Trump tweeted Monday morning that "the F-35 program and cost is out of control. Billions of dollars can and will be saved on military (and other) purchases after January 20th." Shares of Lockheed Martin (LMT), which makes the F-35 fighting jets, plunged 4% following Trump's tweet. (money.cnn.com) More...

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zcolescott
Well...he's not wrong! lol
omrigaron
Ryan Hodges 12
Its called being accountable. Nothing wrong with that.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 10
That should have happened over 10 yrs ago
fastroper
Cecil Clark 7
Mad truth. One Marine Corps F-35B costs taxpayers $251 million. A lone Navy F-35C costs all of us (those who work and pay federal taxes, that is) $337 million. Obama's pentagon wants to buy 400 of these over-priced, gee-whiz jets over the next 5 year. All the fighter pilots with whom I've spoken say the F-35 is the equivalent of the 1980s DeLorean...swoopy, faddish and sharp-looking, but it doesn't do much more than what's we're already flying in our current inventory.
guycole
guycole 4
Wondering how many of you have worked as DoD contractors? LMT doesn't make up the requirements, the customer does. DoD projects are legendary for audit heavy micromanagement. And honestly, taking something this complicated to production is a huge undertaking. The airplane is only the most visible component. Trump is welcome to his opinion, but he doesn't understand the complete exercise. Not making excuses for the F35 as an airplane (which of course, I have zero experience), but I do have extensive first hand experience w/making products for DoD and they are a difficult customer.

[This poster has been suspended.]

guycole
guycole 2
These competitions happen, but there are limits. The result is rarely a flyable aircraft (or other demonstration hardware). Frequently these awards are based on a response which outlines what would be purchased and how it might be built and managed. For systems w/long service lives, the support contracts come up for rebid at regular intervals, so winning the initial award not always a lifetime ride. The CPFF (Cost Plus Fixed Fee) model seems like a comfortable ride, but those projects come w/a huge administrative overhead that (IMO) eat up any savings that might have been realized. I manage my time in 15 minute increments (by project) and chargeback test equipment usage (also on 15 minute increments). At small companies, we literally hold our breath until the milestones are met and the check arrives. Since the profit is "fixed" there is never an opportunity to amass enough capital to expand, everything is on credit and payday to payday. OTOH, we knew the game before we started. HTH.
jbsimms
James Simms 4
Snoopy's Sopwith Camel could shoot down an F-35. F-35: a sophisticated planed designed to perform widely different missions not very well.
mathard99
I agree with you 100% due to the fact that you let out information regarding the F-35's performance and relating to something that has nothing to do with the jet itself
Cadefoster
Cade foster 7
Hopefully the days of blank checks and no accountability by federal employees with our hard earned tax dollars are over.
Yes I know, I'm a dreamer......
ToddBaldwin3
ToddBaldwin3 9
With respect, I disagree with you. In this case, it is the defense contractors with the blank check and no accountability. As for Federal Employees, the vast majority of us are hard working professionals that take their jobs seriously, and yes, we are held accountable.
tbpera
Tom Pera 7
it's a combination of air force wanting everything gold plated, contractor adding and charging, and politicians making sure their district/state gets some of the pie...
this damn thing has been in the works for almost 15 years
1- it still can't carry all its weapons and the gun still doesn't work
2- all our enemies have had time to get ready for it...
Good for Trump!
kd7eir
Jim Myers 5
These people wouldn't know the difference between a dedicated federal employee and a lecherous defense contractor if it smacked them in the face.
scott8733
scott8733 2
I've always wondered since the F-35 was first discussed if I'd rather hedge my bet with the scarf - wrapped Hessian in the bi-plane. Seems my bet was and is still correct.
frankidee
Frank DeLeon 2
He's right as rain.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 2
On 1 hand he's getting all pissy about the overspending on a POS aircraft his party oked wayyy back, and how hes going to save money on military purchases and yet this?

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-calls-increased-defense-spending-more-military-might-n644056
joelwiley
joel wiley 2
Maybe it was something he saw on TV like this:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/10/21/sorry-saga-f-35-when-pentagon-wastes-money-all-get-vegas-hangover.html
ron95020
Ron Wilcher 1
Agree
austing
Austin Gunn -4
The f-35 has been an out-of-control money spend from the beginning. Good on Trump for calling it for what it is: a contractor getting big bucks from the tax-payer to develop an over-priced, unnecessary addition to the US arsenal. Well done, Trump. Keep it up!

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joelwiley
joel wiley 4
Let me help you out.
A google search with the phrase "F-35 F-16 dogfight test" found about 107,000 articles of varying relevance. Among them are:
https://theaviationist.com/2016/03/01/heres-what-ive-learned-so-far-dogfighting-in-the-f-35-a-jsf-pilot-first-hand-account/

http://breakingdefense.com/2015/07/what-the-f-35-v-f-16-dogfight-really-means-think-pilots/

http://breakingdefense.com/2015/07/what-the-f-35-v-f-16-dogfight-really-means-think-pilots/

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/update-norwegian-pilot-counters-leaked-f-35-dogfi-422552/

Does that help? You can do the search yourself, read the articles, and form your own opinion. Or did you want me to read them to you?

Perhaps you are lacking in computer skills for effectively utilize Google.com. If that is the case Yavapai College life long learning program may have something that will help:
https://www.yc.edu/v5content/lifelong-learning/

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joelwiley
joel wiley 3
I lack 'actual operational experience' in the F-35 and claim no expertise. I imagine few on FA do.
So we must look to 3rd parties for expertise on the matter.
Mr. Trump joins a long line of people expressing the opinion the F-35 program is bloated, he is merely the latest and loudest 'trumpeter'.
Dianthis
Gabriel Hoag 4
Wilbur Sanch-esq,

When every single comment you make gets downvoted, you think you'd take a hint.

[This poster has been suspended.]

Dianthis
Gabriel Hoag 4
I think you know very well what "hint" you should take. You asking me that is a perfect demonstration of how you enjoy sparking arguments and seek attention with every post you make. I wish flightaware would hurry up and ban you, as your posts are of absolutely no value to this site.


As someone below mentioned, don't feed the trolls people.

[This poster has been suspended.]


rapidwolve
rapidwolve 2
Wilbur...perhaps you should heed your own words then and you may see the down votes you get, dwindle..here is a classic example of a question you posted and I quote "Someone help me out with accurate info. Did I read correctly - is it possible that a previous generation interceptor (the F-16) bear in mind there are several generations and levels of sophistication of that weapons platform) out-fought the F-35 ? "
As Joel pointed out, use Google, or whatever other search engine you use..you will see that the post that mentioned it, wasn't lying to you...and another quote " If that is true..sounds to me like some purchasing officers should be in jail !"...might want to use said search engine and find out who actually is responsible for procurement before adding those kind of remarks.
Not being mean here, just trying to shine a flashlight.

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joelwiley
joel wiley 3
re:
"Those who are unaware of what ISP protocols provide for those who use the Internet to act out their personal problems, engage in name-calling, bullying, revealing other's names without their permission,
etc... are about to find out. "

Unless you refer to the ISP with which you connect to the Internet, FA's terms and conditions are what governs your 'prediction'.
wingbolt
wingbolt 2
"2. FlightAware may choose to refuse service, account privileges, or access to any individual at any time without explanation or justification."

Perhaps he is making reference to this, he might be familiar with it.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

davidrbarnes
David Barnes 12
Linbb,

The Squawk forum is a place to post and share aviation related news articles/links. I saw this article on CNN, and posted it. The article is both timely (it happened recently) and aviation related. I felt it germane to this forum, regardless of who is speaking.

Please, do explain why this article is not relevant or is inappropriate to post (in my case without comment prior to responding now to answer your attack) for discussion.

[This poster has been suspended.]

davidrbarnes
David Barnes 8
Mr Sanch-esq:

Rest assured I need not your apologies, as I am not sensitive to disagreement. I am sensitive to arrogant pomposity, a subject in which you've shown considerable expertise. I took offense to Linbb's suggestion that my motivation for sharing the story was political. As I mentioned above, I posted it because it was both relevant and timely.

If you feel Linbb's remarks, in particular his second paragraph, to be pertinent and/or relevant, please enlighten me. You, in particular, should take offense to this as his remarks added nothing to the discussion of aircraft or aviation, and instead attempted to advance a political point.

Had Linbb's remarks been self-censored at the first paragraph, I doubt he would have been downvoted, nor would I have felt the need to reply.

[This poster has been suspended.]

davidrbarnes
David Barnes 5
No, the downvotes are (likely) occurring because he's diverting discussion off the topic of aircraft and into the political realm, coupled with an unfounded personal attack. (Though, much as these words taste of vinegar coming out of my mouth, I agree with your second assessment of the "caustic manner".)

And I challenge you to justify your characterization of my so-called resentment of those who do fly. Nothing could be further from the truth. Indeed, it was someone who did, and still does, operate a Centurion that sparked my interest in this crazy industry. (To be fair, it was a Skylane all those years back, but the point remains.)
ToddBaldwin3
ToddBaldwin3 6
After doing painstaking research (i.e. maybe a minute on google) I have managed to identify Mr. Sanchez (aka Peter F. Harman, Esq.) and his ilk. Mr. Sanchez is classified as Troglodytarum molestus, or possibly T. vexo, (the two species are very closely related). The T molestus and T vexo is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,[3] often for the troll's amusement.

The best way to combat them is to simply ignore their inane and pompous bombacity. They crave validation of their existence, and any kind of response good, bad, indifferent, including this little missive I am writing, just reinforces their opinions and their ego. In short, the best way to handle Mr. Peter F. Hartman, esq, Wilbur Sanchez, and is other incarnations is to simply "Not Feed the Trolls."

[This poster has been suspended.]

rapidwolve
rapidwolve 4
in one word...YOU

[This poster has been suspended.]

davidrbarnes
David Barnes 3
1. I am involved in aircraft maintenance.
2. I do not presently have a license to operate an aircraft but am squirreling away money to take the appropriate lessons for same.
3. I do not resent pilots as a profession or as a hobby, however I do resent what SOME pilots do to airplanes. (AF447, OZ214, and others.) I also resent Canadian Geese (AWE1549) and plenty of tug and bag belt drivers who bang up perfectly working airplanes.

Do you support inept pilots who bang up airplanes and leave dead bodies in their wake?
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 2
HEY...dont be resenting the geese, although I do agree with your other do not and do resents...
Another thing I resent is folks coming in here and disrupting good discussions with stupid comments, questions and other schackelbable..get the hint W.Sanchez??

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