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  • 100

The FAA May Put An End to Shrinking Airline Seats and Cramped Leg Room

Submitted
It’s getting more and more crowded to fly in coach—but there’s a chance the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) could step in. The FAA is set to announce the results of its review of seat sizes and leg room in the near future. That review could prevent airlines from further reducing the space available to passengers as carriers cram a few extra seats on board. (fortune.com) More...

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ianmcdonell
ian mcdonell 32
Believe it when I see it
Bernie20910
Bernie Behling 4
Amen!
saskip
Let's be honest: At least, it's a beginning (I really hope so).

;-)
microtv
Jerry McCarty 1
ditto
Majorstwo
Paul Thompson 0
Me too.
iangbarton
Ian Barton 14
I now refuse to fly overseas unless it is absolutely necessary. There is no such thing now as "flying for pleasure". It is VERY uncomfortable flying long distance in these sardine cans.
johnrumble99
John Rumble 6
Got to agree with that. I Flew Air France and paid $40 for extra legroom allegedly provided with Economy Plus
What a frigging joke
If that was plus, the poor heathens in regular economy must have been crippled after the flight
A dead giveaway is after about an hour people are standing up , walking around and doing deep knee bends to avoid thrombosis in their lower limbs.
I will never undertake an overseas flight in anything less than business or first , even if I have to sell my first born
Bernie20910
Bernie Behling 2
With the current prices of such airfares, you might have to make it a package deal with your first, second and third born.
Viperguy46
Jesse Carroll 1
Everything Forward and wheels in the wells, I agree 100%!
ArthurNetteler
Arthur Netteler 13
I am just over 6 feet tall and 260 pounds. And I can tell you that on United, American, Southwest, Jet Blue. I can not even sit in their seats for more than 10-15 minutes. My hips start hurting from the tight space and HARD armrests. And I can not stretch my legs, because they are allowing SO MANY people to place bags, purses, and junk under their seats. STOP ALLOWING check sized bags disguised as BACKPACKS into the cabin! Alaska Airlines was pretty good about keeping bags in cabin to a minimum!~
666adt
Not trying to be a troll or snarky, but I'm just not sure how *other* people's bags, of whatever size, have any impact on you being able to stretch your legs under the seat in front of you. No one can put their bag under the seat in front of you. Only you can. So you should have complete control over whether you can stretch your legs, it seems to me. (I'm 6' tall so our legroom requirements are about the same, and I've never had a problem with other people's bags under the seat in front of me...because no one but I use that space.)
johnrumble99
John Rumble 4
"Not trying to be a troll or snarky, but I'm just not sure how *other* people's bags, of whatever size, have any impact on you being able to stretch your legs under the seat in front of you"
One of the things related to that and not discussed is the "Extra Bag" extortion
A recent overseas flight they wanted $100 for an extra bag online.
However when I got to the gate the flight was "Full" so they offered to check the carry on for free.
Ain't that amazing, willing to kiss all those profits goodby when it's convenient for them. If they allowed more baggage people wouldn't try to cram the overheads and under the seats
av8in4fun
Edward Miller 2
I don't see the problem here. It'e their airline and they should get to run it they way "they" (read shareholders/owners) want to run it. If you don't like it, fly with a different airline. There's a huge market for people who don't care about comfort if it means they can travel cheap. That's what spawned Spirit, Allegiant, etc. If there was actually a market for planes with larger seats and more seat pitch, there would be an airline filling that need. There used to be one - Midway Airlines I think it was. All business class seats. Flew mostly around the Midwest. No longer around because the business model doesn't work. There's a small market for this and airlines are trying to fill it. That's why you see more and more flights seats at the front of economy class with extra legroom.
Let's be honest. Most of the complainers want the cheapest fares and the comfort.
Viperguy46
Jesse Carroll 3
"Most of the complainers want the cheapest fares and the comfort".
DAM RIGHT REDO! Too many small Regental Jets being used when a 737, 747 etc would do better!
Viperguy46
Jesse Carroll 1
Sorry, no coffee yet...WE DO & Regional
StuartHostetter
Right a couple of great airlines Spirit and Allegiant. Both struggle to get 1 out of 5 points. More important is safety. Read about allegiant. I was with Eastern when Midway folded a boondoggle from the beginning. I will never trade cheap for safe. Good luck.
I8atcandysplace
Candace Sherchan 10
It’s about time that someone looked into this! Economy travelers would be forever grateful! I’m most interested to see
the outcome.
geotech1
Donald Herzog 10
EPA Head Says He Needs to Fly First Class Because People Are Mean to Him in Coach. I am sure my boss will buy that excuse.
Majorstwo
Paul Thompson 9
Making the seats more comfortable, should be a requirement. Hell the airlines would have us standing strapped to the walls, so the FAA needs to get involved. I am 6'2" and 200 lbs. I was a pilot for a major airline and getting people to evacuate quickly if needed due to an emergency is very important. Proper leg room is important for evacuating.
paultrubits
paul trubits 4
The only way they are going to sell this is to make it a safety issue. You have to prove that you can evacuate all of the average size travelers out of the aircraft in the allotted.
ae4mcae
Chip Fricke 17
When they stop lobbyists from lining congressperson's pockets, then we'll see some action...
Greg77FA
Greg77FA 8
Small seats equals more irritated passengers, equals more violence in the air. Is this really what the airlines want? Staff want? Think smart.
devsfan
ken young 2
Just wait until the namby pamby can't do without my electronic device for more than 30 second types get their way and start getting to yak away in flight on their stupid phones....There will be all out donnybrooks.
av8in4fun
Edward Miller 1
Airlines fly hundreds of millions of miles every year. You have an "air rage" incident only a couple to times a year and the airlines just ban the bad guy and sometimes charge them for the cost of the divert. If the FAA is going to take action, it won't be because of this.
GraceCohen
Grace Cohen 7
WHO FITS IN COACH? At 5'1 and 100 lbs, I find that coach seats seem to fit me, but with little room to spare. I feel cramped in the bathrooms. I cannot imagine the discomfort felt by taller and heavier passengers, especially on longer flights. Although I resent how some heavier travelers 'Spill over' into my space effectively trapping me and causing me discomfort, my heart goes out to them for having to endure embarrassment as well as discomfort. FAA - TAKE NOTICE!
Grommit12
Barry Smith 2
Hi Grace...I am 5'6", 140 lbs. Perhaps we should lobby for a reduced fare since we take up less space and require less fuel. Whaddya think?
av8in4fun
Edward Miller 2
If the FAA takes action, airlines will raise rates. Then everybody is going to be bitching about the cost of airfare.
devsfan
ken young 3
On average its less costly to use air travel than it was 30 years ago. That is proved out using the bls.gov inflation calculator.
You read that correctly . Factoring for inflation, air fares on average are at the same levels or less expensive than they were 30 years ago...For example. I used to fly RT between EWR and CLT on Piedmont. The RT fare was around $200. In today's dollars that's about $500. The multiplier is derived from $1 in 1985 having the same buying power as $2.53 in 2018 dollars. The advanced purchase fare between these two stops is about $300 to $350 for a non stop on AA.
ba151
Bruce Atkinson 1
Ken, what is your point? Was the experience more comfortable 30 years ago?
kw77
katty wompus 1
Probably, but most of us were smaller 30 years ago :)

Everybody complained back then, too.
usrepeaters
Rob Palmer 0
We already are tired of the higher fares. Remember Eastern? Wash to NYC $10; Boston for $20. I really impressed my Latina girl friend when I flew her up to NYC to see the Royal Ballet perform. I used to fly to Boston on a Saturday to do family history research; it was easier than trying to park in Boston.
usrepeaters
Rob Palmer 6
Being an old-timer and having flown airlines since DC-3s, and observed corporation management for all my life, I feel that this reflects poor management with the attitude of treating the public like cattle. Here we have youthful managers, fresh out of school, trying to make a name for themselves by reducing service to the public. If they save the company a little money, they can put a great new block on their resume.
Corporations operating air service should hire better quality personnel. People with upper class values who don't stoop to such stuff. It's called CLASS. Air fares are to me very expensive today (I first flew from Boston to Washington for $10 with General Patton's widow watching out for me all the way down), and unless the passenger is very ignorant, this stuff is an insult. Think about driving.
TimeRanger
Randy Shereda 1
Rob, I pretty much agree, but its not necessarily the young execs making the decisions - more likely someone a lot closer to the CFO and the Board of Directors, trying to keep the shareholders happy, so they get re-elected
paultrubits
paul trubits 1
The tolls and gas from Boston to DC are more than the airfare. Maybe the Bolt bus instead?
n6943u
n6943u 5
Would be nice United A320s are the worst my knees touch the back of the seat in front of me with my backside against my seat. Strange thing CRJ200s a smaller plane I have more room.
peterlmaas2
Peter Maas 5
At one time "Standing up" was discussed.
dsharris1
D H 1
Ruanair
dsharris1
D H 2
Ryanair
Aztec01
Michael Flagg 4
I work in a a hospital ICU next door to a major airline hub. We see the results of cramped seats/long international flights on a fairly frequent basis
ceeohwx
Philip Capo 4
Until TSA is history, a Catnapper-sized seat will not get me to voluntarily fly commercial.
thegrump
thegrump 6
I suspect I’m going to be taking the unpopular viewpoint here.

On one hand, I’m 6’3” and pretty slim. I’m also just on the north side of “middle-aged”, and don’t have the flexibility or cartilage of a gymnast. Sitting in some economy seats means sitting bolt-upright and still jamming my knees into the back of the seat in front of me. If I could manage to stick my legs under the seat, my size-13’s are poking out from under the seat of the passenger in front of me, which feels kind of rude, and that mother********* metal rod in the seat pocket is pressed directly into my tibia hard enough that there’ll be a bruise for a couple days.

On the other hand, unless it’s truly tied to safety (evacuation, etc), I’m kind of against telling an airline exactly what kind of service they have to provide. I would never fly spirit airlines in a million years, but some people find the savings an acceptable trade-off (or simply necessary, to allow them to travel within their means). I don’t want to tell those people they have to pay more.

If there’s a fact-based argument that increasing the number of seats (or decreasing pitch) impedes an evacuation of assisting a passenger in distress and unable to move, okay, I’m all ears. The air-rage argument, I don’t buy it. A disproportionate number of them happen in the business and first sections of aircraft, either because of intoxication or a passenger who truly thinks the rules don’t apply to them.

There’s a place for restaurants that have a dollar menu, and restaurants where the cheapest appetizer is $40. I think there’s a place for cheap/unpleasant and comfortable/expensive air travel.

(My personal solution: When I considered a new job, I said because of my physical size, any business travel has to be in an “extra-legroom” seat. Not business or first, just a few extra inches so I’m not so sore that I can’t work effectively when I land. Has never raised an objection.)
TimeRanger
Randy Shereda 5
I agree about the government meddling in the comfort issue. On the other hand, there are a lot of places - mostly regional airports - that are serviced by just one airline and travelers don't have the option of choosing airlines based on comfort.
thegrump
thegrump 3
Oh even in major cities, 90% of the time I have a choice of one airline unless I’m willing to really get creative on my schedule. (Houston)

I do recall that until a few years ago, the standard touchdown announcement included “we know you have a choice when you fly....” and I recall also several times hearing laughter or comments from passengers (I was always among the laughers).

Not sure if all airlines have dropped that but I’ll reluctantly give United credit for at least not adding insult to injury :-/
Bernie20910
Bernie Behling 3
My feeling is that comfort directly and adversely affects evacuation time in the event of an emergency. If you're feeling half crippled after a flight you're not going to be able to move quickly in an emergency. The delay of even just a second, multiplied out by however many such passengers are on the flight can be the difference between life and death for others. This is a valid safety consideration in my opinion.
swdunne
Stephen Dunne 1
Agreed, the FAA should not determine comfort, the market should and consumers clearly favor smaller seats and lower fares over high fares and First Class seats. Just look at the number of coach seats versus First Class. Competition and De-regulation have kept airfares affordable for everyone, not just the wealthy. If not for market forces constantly adjusting seat sizes and pricing the airlines would be all but extinct because airfares would be so expensive that only the wealthy could afford it!

Flying the airlines is a strictly voluntary proposition and when the seats become so uncomfortable that people stop voluntarily flying then the airlines will adjust. There are plenty of alternatives, cars, trains and ships. Personally at 6', 190 I don't find the seats so uncomfortable for a three hour flight that I am willing to pay double the fare. I am buying transportation, period.


My only gripe is when I pay for a seat and the person next to me is so large they are spilling into my seat. I acknowledge that the seats are small and am willing to accept that for a lower fare. I am not willing to share my already limited seating space with someone who is actually using up two seats. Now here the FAA has a dog in the fight. Is a 300+ pound passenger in an emergency evacuation a risk to the evacuation process? I have no idea, I just hope the FAA is not ignoring the question for the sake of political correctness.
thegrump
thegrump 3
“Political correctness” used to be called “good manners”, but I know how you feel. I’ve been on one flight where I was both the shortest and thinnest person and I had the middle seat. When my two seat mates saw me look from my boarding pass up to the seat, back down to the boarding pass, they both did the same. They saw my expression and all three of us cracked up.

Thankfully it was a short (30 minutes in air plus an hour on the taxiway because it was a day ending in “Y”) but it was tolerable. If it was a four-hour flight, I might have put on my best “pitiful grey-haired business traveler” smile and seen if an FA could pull a rabbit out of a hat. Win some, lose some.
ba151
Bruce Atkinson 2
I don't recall ever asking for a smaller or less comfortable seat. Not everyone is as young or as physically able to sit on a board for 3 hours. What would a more comfortable seat cost, $10 a ticket? $15 billion in profit is meant for one thing-keeping people who invest happy. Airlines don't build airplanes. They are an oligopoly. There is no alternative. They provide a service with few option as they are all carbon copies of each other.
amiablebird
Ed Merriam 0
hey, if government intervention in the market was good enough for Ayn Rand and Friedrich Hayek ...
redcataviation
Sidney Smith 3
The narrower pitch has got to slow evacuation time. Maybe we could go to Jethro Bodine Airlines from the Beverly Hillbillies, when he converted Mr. Drysdale's jet with wood planks and clothes line rope for seat belts
thegrump
thegrump 2
Extra rows (meaning more passengers per exit) would concern me, but there are people who know the math a lot better than I do, and have to prove it to the FAA.

My concern about narrow rows (and aisles) is that a passenger having a medical issue might be unable to move, or the crew would have difficulty moving them. Or that the narrow aisle combined with tight seat pitch might impede the ability of someone to assist them - CPR, etc.

I don’t want to take away the ability to fly cheap just because I want more room, but I do think things like “can a full-sized crew member get in the proper position to provide CPR, mouth-to-mouth, turn a person over if they are aspirating fluids, in mid-flight with the snack carts in an unhelpful location”.

Air travel is an incredibly democratizing resource; a person with a couple hundred bucks can get to an opportunity almost as fast as a guy with a Falcon 900. I think that’s an important consideration.
joecher
Joseph Chan 3
If one airline were to differentiate itself with more legroom and more seat width in its economy class, by reducing its number of economy class seats, and further back that up by actually marketing these numbers, I for one would gladly pay $40 more for a seat on this airline. If they can charge a little more per pax for decent seat width and legroom, wouldn't that make up for the loss in revenues from reduced seats?
thegrump
thegrump 1
It’s an interesting premise but I’m not sure it’s practical. Redoing the entire passenger cabin is not cheap, and a “upgrade” configuration like you suggest would make that particular aircraft uncompetitive in routes where you can sell the entire cabin at a profit predictably.

I think we’ve already got a pretty close equivalent to that in airlines that offer “you’ll fit,!but it ain’t comfortable and no baggage” fares in the same cabin with “extra legroom, and a carry on”, and even “extra legroom and I’ll pay $20 to get on a few minutes ahead of the stampede”

That’s my expert analysis, which along with $1.43, will get you a McDouble.
ysfsim
Ant Miraa 1
The seat rows are on rails so they can be moved etc
joelwiley
joel wiley 3
With the current administraion's 'war on overregulation", perhaps when the FAA is under new management it will simply declare seats "not a safety requirement" and allow the carriers to eliminate them altogether if they so wish. /s
ba151
Bruce Atkinson 1
I believe Ryan Air hatched a plan where passengers would stand and hang onto a strap.There is no solution for greed and stupidity.
ed7778
Capitalist theory would have one airline making their seats bigger. When the other airlines see their numbers shrinking, they also will enlarge their seats.
666adt
It always struck me as more than a little tone-deaf that an airline manufacturer would choose a name with "bus" in it.

"Airbus" ~ yeah, that conjures up wonderful imagery. "It's like you're on a bus, but for hours, and with no way off."

Not "AirStretchLimousine" or even "AirMidsizeSedan." No, "Airbus." Brilliant.
devsfan
ken young 1
More like AirSubCompact
paulgilpin1953
paul gilpin -5
I've not heard of an airline with "bus" in the name.
Is that a typo?
Do you mean Airbut?
ba151
Bruce Atkinson 3
US airlines are an oligopoly. There is no alternative to reasonably speedy travel. They could care less about the passenger experience. I despise them and their stockholders for treating humanity as they do.
s2v8377
s2v8377 5
Airline profits are down because fuel is up and they're spending money like crazy not because people aren't flying.

I hope the FAA does the right thing and introduces regulation but I doubt it.
StuartHostetter
I worked for Eastern Air Lines in various management positions for over 10 years and we tried to reduce costs after de-regulation when fixed fares were eliminated. Airlines costs were out of control at that time. All they competed on was service and schedule. Of course the unions finally did Eastern in and hurt many people in Miami and other cities. I moved to another profession 15 years before they closed their doors. Airplanes today are like busses in rural Mexico. I am surprised they don't bring chickens in cages onboard as their service animals. The travelling public are basically chasing cheap prices and the get what they pay for, crappy seats and worse service. When I worked for Eastern we were not allowed onboard without a jacket. Today they are barely dressed. Real slobs.
ba151
Bruce Atkinson 3
I agree. The airlines are JUST NOW starting to crack down on bringing "emotional support" animals in the cabin. It's easy to see the degradation of society in microcosm on an airplane.
MatthewBassler
I too worked for Eastern in reservations. I have not flown since 911 and have no desire to fly. I remember a friend I worked with summed it up,"We sell tickets for a bus that flies". This was long before Eastern shutdown. And yes,I remember when I could fly but had to wear suit and tie,but it never bothered me
jculha
John Culhane 4
I was recently on a flight from Houston to Orlando. My seat mate was a big guy. About six foot and 300 pounds. He had to ask the flight attendant for a seat belt extender. He took up his seat and a good part of my space. I'm six foot and 200 pounds. Pure misery. Airlines should make really big people buy two seats.
Aztec01
Michael Flagg 4
And when they do, the airline puts someone in the empty seat...yes, it happens.
Bernie20910
Bernie Behling 3
You ever try actually sitting on two airline seats at once? You're a big enough guy at that height and weight, give it a try and see how uncomfortable it is. No, the real answer here is to stop shrinking seats and seat pitch to the point where even petite sized people are feeling cramped.
kw56chevy
Kirk Wittmayer 2
Sorry, I would like to add, I flew Ozark Airlines out of ALO for many years. Nicest crews, and people you could ask for. Gooniey birds rock! DC3's, now that's flyin.
thegrump
thegrump 1
I’m a little jealous. I’ve never flown or been a passenger in a DC3 but would enjoy the chance. To my eye, they’re one of the most beautiful airframes ever, and I always get a big smile when I’m taxiing at some random airport and see a DC3 that’s clearly in active service.
kw56chevy
Kirk Wittmayer 2
Well, my story is not as bad as most of you folks. I am a bigger fellow,(6'3,260 lbs.)my son lives now in Hawaii. Come and see me here, stay a few weeks. I don't want to go thru the crap he does, just coming back for Christmas. If I go there, Iam thinking, train from Ia.to the west coast, then boat to the island. Haven't really got into the logisitics yet, but hey, I can get up, walk around, and see some of this wonderfull country at ground level.
gzelna
Greg Zelna 3
To be able to fly from FL to Seattle in 6 hours (nonstop) for $450.00 , I'm flying. Yes its a cattle car in the AC, no I won't have leg room, there is a good chance there will be a crying child in close proximity, no I probably wont even have an armrest to call my own, and given a 6 hour flight I will unfortunately probably have to use the Loo a time or to (hate them). Carry on your own food and drink, put on some headphones and read a book. Be abundantly courteous to the harried flight crew, help the elderly and infirmed stuff their oversize carryons overhead, and limit your expectations to arriving alive.
Bernie20910
Bernie Behling 0
"limit your expectations to arriving alive" No, if I'm paying several hundred dollars for a seat then my expectations are going to be a little higher than the level of riding the NYC subway.
kentsutherland1145
May FAA hurry up and do so.....
u009711
Barbara Ong 2
Someone needs to help all of us out in coach
bernie4918
Bernie Kostick 2
Great news!!!
KWSyler
Kevin Syler 2
Please FAA, Please!!!!
crguenther
Hooray!!
MatthewBassler
It's about time,hopefully it happens. This is a reason there is so much "air rage" and people are so cranky
usrepeaters
Rob Palmer 1
People in this country don't like being cheated.
toolguy105
toolguy105 2
As passengers grow wider and taller the airlines shrink seats in width and pitch. To make matters worse the have gone to a slimline seat, in their words to save weight, which is the most uncomfortable seat they have yet to deploy.

The passengers think the airlines over charge so they want rock bottom pricing. The airlines give them rock bottom pricing for the travel portion of the ticket. Then come the add on fee’s: Checked baggage fees, Carry on fees, food on board fees and on some airlines even feels for the water and soda.

Everyone complains about the fees but no one stops to think of just what that ticket costs them in fees. IF you take and add up all the fees you paid and compare them to ticket prices back when all of this was included in the fare. Yu will find in most cases you are paying more then the older ticket after adjusting for inflation.

File this under the heading be careful what you ask for.
av8in4fun
Edward Miller 4
I don't have a problem with the fees. Why should I pay the same fare as the person going on vacation that has two bags in the baggage compartment, one in the overhead bin, and backpack under the seat in front of them when I am taking a day business trip and all I have is my backpack. Why should I pay for beverages I am not going to drink or food I am not going to eat. I think charging for everything except the bag in the overhead bin and under the seat in front of you is fine. It's called a la carte pricing. I am not paying more because I am not consumer of all those other things.
ba151
Bruce Atkinson 0
I have FF memberships on Delta and American, but unless u r a business traveler or one with a big wallet, u still sit on a board that's too narrow with no leg room. $15 billion in profits keep those stockholders happy though. To heck with the people in steerage.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
It appears the three biggest shareholders of Delta and American are Vangard, T. Rowe Price and Berkshire Hathaway. I doubt they are overly concerned with those in 1st class either.
ba151
Bruce Atkinson 1
Those folks aren't complaining about comfort because money isn't an issue. There should be a reasonable level of COMFORT for all passengers that even airline execs would sit in. No empathy.
paulgilpin1953
paul gilpin -3
I AM NOT MAKING EXCUSES FOR THE AIRLINES.
You many have implied this in your comment, but what the airlines see is the public will only pay bottom dollar. If an airline charges more for comfort, the public will only go to the lowest airfare. And complain all the while. Doing the same every time. Yes, there is a small few who will pay more for more legroom. Ann Coulter did.
Words that come to mind are cattle, sheeple, etc.
aah620
Amanda J. HENN 1
About time we all don't ride horses for a living!
fhphotog
John Hepburn 1
It took 11 years, yes, 11, for the government to come up with the three hour tarmac limit. You may remember the first outcry came when Northwest planes were backed up in Detroit during a blizzard. Northwest kept landing planes even though the gates were full. There was a huge furor. But the ruling didn't come until 11 years later due to the airlines fighting the rule and government bureaucracy inertia. Don't look for a ruling anytime soon on seat size or pitch.
GraceCohen
Grace Cohen 1
WHO FITS IN COACH? At 5'1 and 100 lbs, I find that coach seats seem to fit me, but with little room to spare. I feel cramped in the bathrooms. I cannot imagine the discomfort felt by taller and heavier passengers, especially on longer flights. Although I resent how some heavier travelers
Bernie20910
Bernie Behling 2
6'2", 275, elderly and disabled (arthritis sucks). The airlines and TSA have, together, removed flying as an option for me. I can't fit the economy or economy plus, seats without excruciating pain, I can't afford to pay 2 or 3 times that fare for business class, and I'm sick of being fondled, groped and hurt by TSA "pat downs" because I have some artificial parts and can't walk without my cane. I used to fly all the time when I was younger. No more.
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 2
You’re not missing much. I choose to drive most of the time for a host of reasons; size of seat being one but not even near the top of the list. I am able to afford 1st class but have never purchased one of those tickets as I view it as a ripoff intended for those with big pocket books, or OPM, and weak minds.
bgaskill
brian Gaskill 1
Don’t disagree with all the sentiments here, but just got off a AA SFO-CLT red-eye and it wasn’t terrible. Most of the time I will either pay for the up-front seat and occasionally get upgraded, but wasn’t available last night and I didn’t mind at all.
I think the worst part of flying these days is the disdain everyone has going in to it. I love flying, wish I did it professionally but content with life (other than the 10 seconds when I step on the a/c and have to go right instead of left). I still always book a window seat and track flights in hopes of seeing another a/c closely zoom by at almost 1000 knots. I’m still amazed at the idea of what we are doing, how high we are doing it and how quickly we get there.

Ftr- I’m 6’ and 223. I have some weight to lose, to be sure and I much prefer the front 6 rows...but enjoy the journey just as much from row 28, as long as I have a window seat.
ba151
Bruce Atkinson 1
Just what do you think causes the "disdain"? Do you think maybe older folks and those wallets aren't as fat as yours are uncomfortable because of being treated like cattle? I used to love flying but now it's not enjoyable. It's not just an attitude my friend. It's the experience.
TimeRanger
Randy Shereda 2
Bruce - of lot of the "disdain" comes from being treated like prisoners lining up for lunch, in the the TSA screening areas. Last year, I had the displeasure of watching the Blue Shirts pull an elderly lady (easily 80+ years old) aside for a pat-down and swabbing of her hands and carry-on bag. You could see the humiliation on the old gal's face.
TimeRanger
Randy Shereda 0
One of the nicest things about the front of the cabin - its a LOT quieter than it is in the back of the bus .... and since the airflow goes aft ... you have less of a chance being seated behind someone that had a double-bean & broccoli burrito for lunch.
ba151
Bruce Atkinson 1
How does this comment fit in this conversation? U r telling us what we already know. The issue is how people in sewerage are being treated.
TWA55
TWA55 1
This has to be discrimination doesn't it or one clever way to cut down on cost. Less big folks equals less weight and more seats, less weight per volume equals more profit right? LOL
TimeRanger
Randy Shereda 1
I dunno - you ever seen some of the stuff/bags them little folk try to bring aboard? You would think they were boarding a Pakistani bus, not an airplane!
Bernie20910
Bernie Behling 1
My wife calls them "baby elephant bags" because they're big enough for one.
gzelna
Greg Zelna 1
I thought the minimum seat pitch was already an FFA defined dimension, not for PAX comfort but as a matter of safety, especially in an evacuation........
nasdisco
Chris B -7
Make Trump and Co fly coach for a bit. That will teach them what to do
thegrump
thegrump 2
I’m not a fan of the guy but I don’t think that’s a useful or practical idea. He is the president, and his safety is more complex than mine.

Plus there is something to be said for keeping him relaxed, away from stress or news or microphones etc. (glances at 401k graph for last month)
Bernie20910
Bernie Behling 3
You know that a large press contingent is usually aboard Air Force One, right?
georgeadeveray
Agreed. Things only start to change one the important people get effected.
RichardIsbell
Richard Isbell 11
Dream on. We have created a two tiered society where the rich set the rules that they don’t live by. They don’t care because they literally don’t see the problem. Congress and the President don’t travel like you or us. They bypass security with special access gates, sit in first class or fly private where there is no security or rules. The stratification of wealth in America is leading to the downfall of our country.
av8in4fun
Edward Miller 4
I don't agree with all this but I will agree that getting in my own plane which also allows me to skip security and that is pretty awesome.
RichardIsbell
Richard Isbell 8
I fly the ultra wealthy and have daily contact with them. I don’t think they are evil, I think they are clueless.
thegrump
thegrump 2
It’s all relative. To someone in a refugee camp in Syria, I would seem as wealthy and clueless of their reality, as the average suit sitting in back of a 900EX is to mine.
ba151
Bruce Atkinson 0
Good for you.
ba151
Bruce Atkinson 2
Airline problems didn't start with Trump. Are you over 10 years old?
gerardogodoy
gerardo godoy -2
Ha!!!! wait for 40 years!!!!The FAA is so corrupt and full of political leftist hacks it will continue its go crash policy.
Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 0
I’m all for a mandated minimum seat pitch. I’m also in favour if a $ amount charged for carry on luggage, murse and purse excepted. Airlines have for years been able to increase the number of seats by manufacturers building longer aircraft of the same model. Case in point the 737 originally carried 119 and now over 180 and when you get so long you hit the tail on rotate they build a twin aisle version, and so on. Checked baggage quantified by number of and weight should be free. The single aisle stretch 8 carried 249 and the L1011 carried 362 albeit with thicker guage metal and thirsty RR RB-211’s. Lighter airframes and more fuel efficient engines helped the bottom line but the travelling public allowed themselves to be put in this predicament by settling for discomfort! Just like the 1200 sq ft. apartment/condo has given way to the 600 - 900 sq ft version but with the same number of people in a unit, however, now there are twice as many units in the building. Rant now over.
mikenitschke
Michael Nitschke -1
thank god,
along time in waitng
TimeRanger
Randy Shereda 1
don't hold yer breath Michael - the FAA moves just about as fast as the FDA or any other federal entity. This will take years of studies and hearings
Bernie20910
Bernie Behling 1
Yes, but it's nice to hope that my great, great grandkids will benefit from this.

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