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  • 15

Airplane Repo Owners Jet runs off runway

Submitted
Marco Island, FL - Investigators are looking into what caused a private jet to crash land at the Marco Island Executive Airport Sunday. The plane is owned by Six Hundred NP, LLC - and reality star Nick Popovich of the Discovery Channel's Airplane Repo is registered to own that company. (www.nbc-2.com) More...

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Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 5
Thrust reverses or not, landing distance is calculated without them! Non-precision approach, maybe too high or too fast or combination of both. Flown all the approaches to this airport in cat C aircraft and you have to get it right the first time or go around. Still, could be a mechanical issue....will have to wait and see.
bovineone
Jeff Lawson 3
Accident summary page -- http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=174207

Aircraft registration for N600NP -- http://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N600NP

[This poster has been suspended.]

bbabis
Bill Babis 2
Yes, 5000' is plenty, but it is going by in a hurry if you're delaying braking and dinking around with reversers. Reversers have also been known to fail in ways that provide more forward thrust as you try to reverse. Good luck trying to figure that out after touchdown. Anyway, thank God everybody is OK, and this one should be figured out in short order.

THRUSTT
THRUSTT 4
I see pilots trying to grease it on a lot of times on short runways. Short plus wet plus floating trying to impress passengers are a bad mix. As proven, a firm landing in the touchdown zone is way better than a soft one outside of it...
bbabis
Bill Babis 7
True true. Firm landings usually need not be explained while excursions off the end of the runway usually do.
preacher1
preacher1 1
That's an understatement. lol
ict1
gordon turner 5
I think it is Nick Popodopolous' airplane. So it is not the airplane being repo'd. I cannot stand that show. 2 minutes of footage looped to make a 1 hour show.
patmb2011
patmb2011 1
I'd like to think it WAS being repossessed
sgbelverta
sharon bias 2
Will be interesting to read the final report. It appears that at least 1 of the passengers is an experienced pilot. NTSB usually doesn't get that kind of input.
FrankHarvey
Frank Harvey 2
If you deploy the reversers after crossing the threshold at over 100 ft agl for 01 at KILG in a Westwind simulator the "sweatbox" momentarily seems to fly backwards just before you come into contact with the tarmac.

On a more important note: If you are PIC flying an approach in adverse conditions and the FO is primed to deploy the reversers, spoilers etc, on touchdown, should you decide to go around, its advisable to let the right seat absolutely clearly know, and confirm, should you decide to abort. If you mumble something like "doesn't look good" and then loudly say "gimmie everything", even though you are aware of the altitude situation, and your decision, he may not be, especially if your conversation preceding finals had you trying to see how quickly you could clear the runway for the C130s behind you (and get to the restaurant).

Its nice if both chaps at the pointy end know what they're trying to achieve.
wbnethery3
Bryan Nethery 4
Are these comments germane to the story? I could find no accounts of PIC/FO cockpit discussions or C-130's following... this must be in reference to a different incident. I'm not a pilot, so I don't get the references.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Some of it is just digressing and BS but he is saying " quit yer mumblin' and let the right seat guy know what in the hell your are doing. The C130's could be anything on your 6 and you being hungry or needing a drink and not paying particular attention to the approach.
FrankHarvey
Frank Harvey 1
On reflection preacher most of it is cabin fever induced BS.
FrankHarvey
Frank Harvey 1
Thanks Preacher, you are correct. In the simulation ATC were expediting runway clearance. Nowadays they talk about CRM. Also some ga users liked to turn off to get to the restaurant. I responded with a more complete explanation to Bryan.
preacher1
preacher1 1
10-4 on the cabin fever. Been that some down here. LOL
FrankHarvey
Frank Harvey 1
Bryan - This comment was not directly related to the incident reported above. It was only related as it involved thrust reversers.

My explanation below is not intended to be sarcastic but just to clarify.

I was relating something from an event in a simulator which I thought might be of interest as it involved the power of thrust reversers as interpreted by a computer running a Westwind simulator at Atlantic Aviation in Wilmington Delaware (KILG) back in the 1980s during a simulated situation of adverse weather and an ATC request to clear the runway ASAP. I could have included a couple of other factors which were involved such an incorrect wing configuration on the Westwind which contributed to a failure to maintain the intended descent rate and the possible impact of ground effect on keeping the simulated flight above the intended descent envelope. At that time a squadron of Air National Guard C-130s was based at Wilmington and sometimes their needs were given priority by the Tower over general aviation (GA). The terminal restaurant was also a destination for local GA for "hundred dollar hamburgers", a sarcastic reference to the fuel consumed in getting the aircraft there and back from the home base.

It was the sort of conversation we used to have years ago sitting around a bar and from which observations and capabilities could be deduced and lessons learned the soft way. It led me to an "I learned about flying from that" reflection on the event which highlighted the necessity of clear communication between the PIC/FO when operating under pressure and how it is necessary to confirm understood intentions. In this instance the PIC's "gimmie everything" meant "full power" to go around whereas the FO was under the impression that the intent to land still stood. The PIC failed to ensure the FO understood the change of plan. The FO also was situationally unaware of the excessive altitude when he actuated the thrust reversers and the spoilers.

Fortunately this occurred in a simulator and before we could rely on computers to actually operate aircraft perfectly under all conditions. (Caution - does not apply to Airbus)

I could have added that reversers were actually used on(some)Caribbean islands to back away from the gate rather than hook up a tow.
ICMI
ICMI 1
Nice landing!!!!! Nose tires look a little low. Probably should have a mechanic take a look at them!!!!!
preacher1
preacher1 1
With about 2700' landing required, why was he even deploying thrusters on 5 grand anyway??
Nchawk
I obviously can't speak for these particular pilots, but we generally plan on using reversers on EVERY landing, and in my experience that's been the case with most pilots I've flown with. Now, there are circumstances where we might mutually decide not to use them, for instance if it's 2 in the morning at a noise sensitive airport, or if we need to roll down to the last turn-off of a 12,000 foot runway or something...

But otherwise the point of the reversers is to help reduce wear and tear on the brakes, and to provide an extra margin of safety in case something unexpected were to happen. We don't ever use them because we absolutely need them. We could land on a 3,000 runway without them, if we really wanted to. But still, in reality, we deploy them even if we are landing on an 8, 9, 10, 11, or even 12 thousand foot runway. It helps save the brakes, smooths out the deceleration, and gives us a little extra oomph if we really need it at some point. And the controller always appreciate a speedy exit after touchdown, no matter how long the runway is.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
Save the brakes...
preacher1
preacher1 1
I guess
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 3
Plus, when they roar, it sounds nice!!!
preacher1
preacher1 1
10-4. lol. I don't think it said that P was flying so maybe he was trying to impress the boss.
Jjeppson
Joel Jeppson 1
Finally caught up with theses cowboys. That show gives all of us legitimate pilots a bad eye. No crying here.
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 1
Guess you didn't know he quit the show after the first season when they wanted to stage it. Guess the ATP's he hires aren't legit pilots. Guess you got a bigger business with better jets and legit pilots.
RRKen
Did anyone notice how poorly written the article was? And supposedly these are professional media reporters.

They got paid for this? "We were leaving trying to leave yesterday afternoon around 5 o'clock," passenger Tim Kauffman said.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
Those pesky reverse thrusters!!!
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 3
Can you 'splain how those gizmos work? They for backin into the garage?
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 3
Out, for crushing the scooters and bikes the neighbors kids leave in your driveway...
edcifelli
ed cifelli 2
this info is from someone who will admit I don't know much about the subject. But from I have seen the reverse thrusters are basically a set of deflectors on the rear of the engine. When they are activated they appear to come togeghter in the engines exhaust and deflect it forward. So basically your thrust is going to the front and acting as a brake. There are probablymore peoplen here that could explain it better.
TorstenHoff
Torsten Hoff 5
...like the guy who asked the questions.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 2
You got it!!!
PSBJ
PSBJ 1
Your explanation is quite good.
rideclickcode
ride click -1
Karma
Learjetsales
I'll bet 90-1 pilot error, I'll also bet the crew has low time in type. Glad they all were not injured though.
linbb
linbb -2
Nice that they had a plane crash that landed at the airport nice looking air head lady glad she knew it was not a piper cub.

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