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Squawks & HeadlinesSaab wins Brazil jet deal after NSA spying sours Boeing bid

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Saab wins Brazil jet deal after NSA spying sours Boeing bid

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Brazil awarded a $4.5 billion contract to Saab AB on Wednesday to replace its aging fleet of fighter jets, a surprise coup for the Swedish company after news of U.S. spying on Brazilians helped derail Boeing's chances for the deal. ... The timing of the announcement, after more than a decade of off-and-on negotiations, appeared to catch the companies involved by surprise. Even Juniti Saito, Brazil's top air force commander, said on Wednesday that he only heard of the decision a day earlier in a… (mobile.reuters.com) More...

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CloudSurfer89
CloudSurfer89 3
Correct me if I'm wrong but I feel as though everyone spies (or wants to be able to spy) but no one wants to get caught. It's a game, information is power. The NSA is just out of control and the USA got caught. Foreign nations acting like saints that would never consider such a thing is laughable to me - as if Brazil is free of all political corruption.

If they want to use a National Defense decision to make a political point let them make that unwise decision and think nothing of it. Boeing is an excellent company.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
China's Snowden(s) have been systemically killed by their security apparatus, or you'd hear more about their spying.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 3
Stupid is as stupid does.

Maybe the Saab plane is a good enough plane. Maybe it's the better plane. Maybe it is the best plane within the budget constraints.

But there shouldn't be any other considerations apart from the suitability of the aircraft for the mission and ability to properly budget for the putchase and operational cost.

Making purchase decisions of national security equipment to send a political message, rather than picking the most appropriate tool is stupid.
canuck44
John Donaldson 2
Brazil hardly needs the most sophisticated aircraft. When one looks at its neighbors, Argentina is most formidable with very little high quality aircraft. They are currently negotiating with Spain to take the latter's old Mirages off their hands.

Given that consideration there is nothing wrong with making or rejecting purchases based on national policy. This may set off other rounds of retaliation such as excluding eligibility of Embraer for various programs such as accelerated depreciation used by US Airlines.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 0
They may not need the more expensive superior-capability planes. That reason is sufficient.

Pretending that it has anything to do with technological surveillance is just politics.

You would think that if they had a threatening hostile neighbor on their border, they'd be more concerned about the capabilities of the plane. But then there's the whole South Korean bid fiasco, with the North Koreans' situation getting more desperate by the day as their leader seems ever more paranoid.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 2
The American presence around the world should be scaled back slightly. Let nations that want protection ask for and help pay for the protection that is being provided to them.

If they are too proud to ask for help, and get overrun. That's their own deal.

Over the years, the presence of a worldwide military power has a stabilizing effect on the world. Some (too many) seem to take thus fir granted and even bad mouth the 'great power'.

Let'm feel some pain from destabilization. They'll appreciate the effort being made by US military and being funded by US taxpayers.
chalet
chalet 1
Brazil was all set to buy the French Rafael aircraft but around june-july of this year there were terrible demonstrations on the streets of Rio de Janeiro, Sao Paulo and others protesting the 20-30 billion DOLLARS beinguburned by the government for holding soccer's top World Cup compettition in 2014 and the Summer Olympics in 2016 when the infrastructure in the country is a monumental mess: overcrowded airports and motorways, the badly needed super-fast Rio-Sao train is still in the preliminary engineering studies stage, hospitals more resembling staging areas before sending patients to private clinics, or to their burial. The cost of the Gripen program at $4+ billion level vs. the French Rafale which arguably being more andvanced would have brough a 10-12 billion bill. Now the big question, does the country need any of this, ABSOLUTELY NOT it is just that their Air Force hotjocks want to drive something newer.
wingbolt
Todd Wilson 1
Now when Obama pisses off Brazil and he wants to go to war against them we have a better chance. We are starting to run out of friends.
marinesteban
Esteban Marin 2
Brazil was not and it will never be a war allied for the US for a cultural reason, Brazil hasn't gone to war in more than a hundred years and they will not go to war for any other country than theirs.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
That makes a lot of sense. The need to NOT SPEND lots of money on expensive military fighter jets is a political reality.

The NSA pot shot was also political posturing, but in reality had little or nothing to do with the decision that arose from a budgetary reality.

She just peeved that Obama can read her emails and listen to her phone calls, bit she can't intercept Obama's communications despite robust efforts.
bimjim
Jim Lynch 1
Whether NSA was the reason or not, the United States is an Empire already in decline, whether you like to hear it or not.

Americans are now known by the rest of the world as the most greedy, yet the most ignorant technologically-advanced people on earth, now also the most in debt - to the tune of over three Trillion dollars and still rising. They continue to spend exorbitantly on their self-imposed role as Global Policeman, yet seem unable to get even their own houses in order.

At some point - which the UK has already reached - the entire nation working together would not be able to pay the interest, far less the principal, on the ever-rising national debt.

One by one the rest of the world is turning their back on America, and ongoing processes within that country - including the collapse of basic education - suggests that it will become a country of just the super-rich and the super-poor, with very little between them.

America's proud boasts of "freedom" now mean almost nothing in reality, with most of their "freedoms" incrementally now taken away, most recently in the name of "national security". The USA now spies on all or the rest of the world, INCLUDING on all Americans. The internet - half of which is cluttered with garbage SPAM messages - actually made that easier to do.

With the fall of Russian Socialism now decades ago and with the imminent collapse of the American Empire, I think the next global power will be China.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 3
Interesting treatise, though your conclusions are not supported by your facts nor your arguments. Nor anyone else's.

First, the US Natuinal Debt is not $3 trillion. It is $17 trillion, up from about $8 Trillion at the beginning of the Obama administration.

Secondly, you're right when you say the world is full of ingrates, who do take the stability provided by the US for granted. Let the US pull back a little more and let the world feel the pain of increased instability. They'll come around, even if domestic political reality makes them speak out agiant the most stabilizing influence in re world right now.

As far as the world turning to China to help protect human rights is laughable at best, and hard to believe at worst.


The US debt is still $Trillions less than the the national GDP and GNP. Many other developed and emerging countries aren't in as good shape debt wise. Bit just because the nation's economy can handle the debt, neither makes it good economically nor morally just. Frivolously spending future generation's money cannot easily be defended.

As far as spying, every country does it. Some are just better at than others. The Americans and Chinese are particularly skillful. The ire directed toward the Americans is misplaced. The American society is just much more open, with free and public political debate. While the Chinese aren't as good, if countries and citizens around the world realized how much of their communications and information is being vacuumed up by the Chinese apparatus, and then sold or given to favored individuals and companies, people would be shocked, outraged and justifiably upset. I would hope that they would protest the stealing of their futures. The intellectual property from around the world is being copied by Chinese companies and counterfeits are being sold without any payment to the non-Chinese creators.

Wake up. (hopefully sooner rather than later)
bimjim
Jim Lynch 0
Thanks for confirming my opinions and observations. You may not see it - you are American, after all, and you don't even want to see it.

17 Trillion, huh? Wow, how would you like to start paying the interest on that?

I did not say that China would be there for human rights, I said China would be the only world power. And with the Fall of the American Empire the US would not be able to afford to do "diddly squat" about their treatment of the world. With all the fracturing there may not be a USA any more, it may be as many as 50+ separate seceded countries with a common past.

The vast and great Roman Empire fell because the Roman leadership degenerated into an undisciplined self-centered and entitled rabble who no longer cared about their country, only about money and power (wow, does that sound familiar?).

Wall Street has sucked whatever wealth there was in the middle class into the 1% of super-rich - and got bonuses for doing it. The US is on the way OUT the door... as I said, whether you like it, or see it, or not.

IMHO the US now comprises some 350 million different and separate political parties - everybody has a full right to their own opinions, no matter how strange and contrary they may be, and they all take full advantage. Not one can agree with any other on anything in common.

With a Congress and Senate who all feel the same way - no matter what the people they represent think - good luck finding a consensus in the future.

'Bye!
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 2
You may be mixing up recent European political history with your notions of the US.

What you call self-centered self-interested persons, may in fact be people who have 17 trillion reasons to want tor put their collective foot down against uncontrolled spending. I'll take that messiness that comes from open political debate any day.

Rather than be a sign of the end, it may in fact demonstrate a vibrant democracy, that still has a lot of kick left.

[This poster has been suspended.]

marinesteban
Esteban Marin 1
Because the NSA was conceived under his administration...
Go back and inform yourself before posting
Moviela
Ric Wernicke 2
Just who did conceive the NSA and who made it official? "There is no fool like an old fool Roosevelt thought it up and "The Buck Stops Here" Truman created the agency. There work was carried on in secret for the most part except after the fact during most administrations' including the turd of a Presidency turned in by Jimmy Carter. The Clint Eastwood's empty chair was elected by low information voters and the entire executive branch has been taken over by half-lads that could not pour piss from a boot with instructions printed on the heel.

There have been more security calamities with this bunch and their liberal hiring policies than any other time dating back to Mr. Revere's ride through Boston on horseback. November 2016 should be the end of an error, but old crusty Brown in California wants to try his hand at ruining the whole country. Thankfully President Obama has set the bar high.
marinesteban
Esteban Marin 0
"There have been more security calamities with this bunch and their liberal hiring policies..." i guess your memory doesn't go all the way to 2001

the previous administration set the legal enviroment for the NSA to be what it is today, hopefully the current administration (or the next) will dismantle it before it keeps growing
Moviela
Ric Wernicke 2
Been reading the democratic talking points again? Truman set it up for the NSA to use a system called AMA to see who was calling who on the phone.

The current occupant at 1600 PA Av blames everything on Bush. Even the earthquake damage to the Washington Monument was caused by the Bush fault.

When is the prison in Cuba going to be closed? He promised 48 hours. Still there. You can keep your health plan and doctor too.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 0
"dismantle...?"

I'd like to think and I'd like terrorists to think that they can't make use the conveniences of modern communication, such as phone calls and email to coordinate their campaigns of terror without significant chance of having their plans found out and foiled.

I'd like to think that the inconvenience of crippled communications slows down and prevents many acts of terror and saves many lives.
marinesteban
Esteban Marin 0
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for anti terrorism and Intel gathering, my point is that the NSA has gone haywire. They should dismantle and start over with the original intent.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
Well that is what they do --intel gathering. It's the other guys that go out and do the dirty work in the field.
marinesteban
Esteban Marin 0
Let's agree to disagree :)
chalet
chalet 1
What are you smoking Phil Rudd (you are worse tan rude)