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Squawks & HeadlinesFlorida: Mexican Learjet Departs Fort Lauderdale Airport, Crashes in Atlantic Ocean

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Florida: Mexican Learjet Departs Fort Lauderdale Airport, Crashes in Atlantic Ocean

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A Mexican-registered Learjet 35 took off from the airport in Fort Lauderdale on Tuesday but crashed soon after in the Atlantic Ocean. The Federal Aviation Agency (FAA) said that the jet went down about four miles off the coast, according to BNO News. The jet was bound for Cozumel, Mexico. The jet is capable of carrying 10 people but it’s not yet known if it was full. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/XAUSD (www.theepochtimes.com) More...

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KevinBrown
Kevin Brown 7
Jet Rescue of Scottsdale confirm via Facebook that they are NO LONGER the owner operator of the doomed LearJet

We have received several media inquiries regarding the fatal learjet crash off the Fort Lauderdale coast.XA-USD was leased by our company several years ago. We ceased utilizing that aircraft 4 years ago.The owner /operator is AeroJL from Toluca, and the medical service provider is Air Evac International from San Diego California. Our deepest condolences to those families in grief.
bbabis
bbabis 5
Listening to the ATC tape again, it seams that they definitely had a bigger problem than the loss of an engine. The initial check-in with departure indicated no problem and the aircraft should have been cleaned up and an engine failure would have been relatively easy to handle. The subsequent transmissions of climb to 4000' not possible and the immediate 180 request hints at dual engine failure or reduction in power, possibly due to birds, or some other major problem.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 0
They had a fairly quick altitude decay. They did a decent job of maintaining airspeed, but given the altitude drop, they may have been gliding, and trading altitude for speed in an attempt to get back to an airfield. More information should be made available as the investigation continues.
bbabis
bbabis 2
I know water is unforgiving, but the wreckage looks much worse than a botched ditching attempt. They must have lost it at some point. Engine restart attempts could darken the cockpit and nighttime conditions were no help.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 3
The darkness is unforgiving. It is easier to botch the ditching attempt when you can't even see the water. You have to rely on instruments and call outs (altitude and terrain warnings*), all while dealing with whatever emergency - be it dual engine failure or reduced power or what have you - and still put the plane down smoothly. Wouldn't want to be in his shoes.

*figure Learjets have these audible warnings too.

[This poster has been suspended.]

akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 1
ThanX dear friend James Farnsworth. And also to Peter Knudson.
Infact , some one from NTSB sharing info with a person like you is more effective communication than media briefing !
HOW ?
In media briefing the persons who attend are LEAST bothered by the content or the nature of subject matter.
Again, when the media breaks the news , it is heard by those who understand nothing of it OR are not interested in the subject matter.
Thus only a handful people care to learn of it.
On the other hand, sharing info with a responsible person of a portal like F A, NTSB spreads the news among professionals , barring a few like me.
Who in turn , give their highly considered views and responses. Extremely useful and helpful feed back to NTSB. Provided they wish to pay heed to what is written(said) here.
Keep up the good work.
bbabis
bbabis 2
First off, My condolences and gratitude to the families involved. To lose your life during the care and saving of others is truly tragic.

They were in a tough spot, night and departure over water, but a Lear35 should fly and make a safe return landing on one engine. The crew either had a much bigger problem than the engine failure mentioned in the mayday or they miss managed the return procedure. This one looks like it will be solved.
Lonewolf24
Lonewolf24 2
It doesn't look like the aircraft had any sort of chance... The aircraft is just a mangled pile of wreckage now. Doesn't even look like a plane anymore. Hoping and praying that they find the two missing alive. Condolences to those affected. The whole Air Medical family mourns today.
KevinBrown
Kevin Brown 2
davidleg
david legarreta 2
The airplane is a mexican aircraft that belongs to aerojl out of toluca mexico. This company has several aircraft leajet 60s , 35s and a challenger 601-3r. the lear was under contract with Jet Rescue but it does not belong to Jet Rescue.
aerocare
aerocare 1
That is not true! the airplane was under contract with air evac international Jet Rescue ceased utilizing AeroJL services more than 4 years ago
KevinBrown
Kevin Brown 0
From the recording the pilot declare an engine failure - ATC asks him to maintain 4000 to which pilot replies "not possible...doing a 180"....you hear pilot declare "mayday mayday" and ATC asking if he can reach Ft Lauderdale Executive
leo24d
Leonardo Ramirez -1
Hi David,
Have you been to Toluca airport? Are you sure that Aerojl has the aircrafts that you just mentioned, like Challenger, Learjet 60 and so on? I am really interested to know.

Thanks
aerocare
aerocare 1
They do have 2 60s ,2 35´s left a challenger and 3 25s
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
BTW Live ATC station/recording at KFLL has been down for over a day.
jetsiah
jetsiah 1
Live Atc - 126.05 Miami Dep - Audio Archives - Nov 20th - 0030z to 0100z - Start at 20:00 in.
Paul7mmmag
Paul Holmquist 1
The Learjet 35, which went down in the Atlantic Ocean after taking off from Fort Lauderdale at 7:51 p.m. ET Tuesday, bound for Cozumel, Mexico.
Paul7mmmag
Paul Holmquist 1
Does anyone know the serial number of this a/c? Thanks in advance.
KevinBrown
Kevin Brown 1
Not sure if this is the current owner but the downed LearJet was registered to Jet Rescue of Scottsdale AZ

Scottsdale, AZ, 08/28/2009 - Just in Time for our busy winter travel season Jet Rescue Air Ambulance Proudly announces the addition of its 2 Learjet 35-A in Mexico.

Jet Rescue International, an air ambulance company with its headquarters in Scottsdale, AZ has proudly presented the latest addition to its fleet; a Learjet 35-A (XA-USD).

This Learjet will be the second air ambulance Learjet stationed in Mexico. This air ambulance will be stationed at the Toluca International Airport (MMTO), a few miles from Mexico City.

The Learjet 35-A medical Interior is custom made and has a Life port plus Stretcher system, dedicated medical cabinets and full modern ICU equipment. In addition the aircraft avionics allow for worldwide missions.
These 2 Lear jets 35 make the perfect aircraft to evacuate patients from South/Latin America and Mexico back to the United States or Canada.

The air ambulance aircraft will be crewed by 2 highly experienced pilots, 2 ICU trained medical personnel and will be operated by Mexican DGAC Part 135 equivalent Certificate Holder Aero Jl S.A.
WigzellRM
Ralph Wigzell 1
eadeath
eadeath 1
Leonardo Ramirez yes im sure of that kind of planes property od AeroJL
KevinBrown
Kevin Brown 1
Broward County Sheriff and Area Police / Fire Live Audio Feed http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/13869/web via @Broadcastify

From Broadcastify.com:

--UPDATE 5-- Another soul has been located now bringing the count to 3 of 4. --UPDATE 4-- Another Soul was found bringing the count to two. Here is information the plane http://flightaware.com/live/flight/XAUSD (14 minutes ago)
Musketeer1
Musketeer1 2
bizjets101
biz jets 2
http://www.laasdata.com/corpjet/ great for serial number registration tie up!!
bbabis
bbabis 1
Thanks! Handy site.
Paul7mmmag
Paul Holmquist 1
Thank you!
aerocare
aerocare 1
this is a few years ago Jet Rescue ceased utilizing Aero JL services 4 years ago
Lonewolf24
Lonewolf24 1
So the count is 3 dead, 1 missing?
davidleg
david legarreta 1
Yes am sure am based in toluca

[This poster has been suspended.]

Musketeer1
Musketeer1 4
Agree phil...they do like 12 or 1300 on 1 at mtow. Maybe a fire killed some instruments or smoke got to 'em? Could've been a dual with birds or fuel. Kind of early on to say.
bentwing60
bentwing60 1
1200 or 1300 what, If you are talking VS,OEI, you have never flown one. Those were not the numbers I ever saw on a Part 135 checkride at Simipiggy, (always hot & heavy), and less than that on a freight checkride 3000 lbs. under gross in a real 25. No rudder bias, lots a leg and trim. Not a forgiving airplane in any of it's early forms, but then most of the pilots of the day were not low time autopilot, FMS, GPS stirring savants. My condolences to the crew, used to do bambalance in a 25, and I can tell you, with the exception of sayin lifeguard and getting direct virtually anywhere, with pax., it was flying, with more issues and a pain in the a*#. NTSB will tell the story, can't believe they had an engine left.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 2
I wonder if they rolled it in the turn...
bentwing60
bentwing60 1
I think you are confusing the performance of a 35 with that of a 20 series, particularly OEI. And the 35 is a considerably more forgiving airplane than a 25, and most certainly a 23 with an original wing. Won't speculate on the cause, but nothing without a hull lands well in the water!
sparkie624
sparkie624 -5
Coming out of Mexico.. It could have been contaminated fuel. They have different standards that the US.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 5
It came out of Costa Rica. If it was contaminated, it probably would've failed before.
aerocare
aerocare 1
Come on! they fuel in the US and previously Costa Rica
davidleg
david legarreta 0
Yes am sure I am based in toluca
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 0
On the KMIA ATC recording, I believe I hear the pilot saying that he has 'engine failure'. He asks for a 180 to return to KFLL, and twice repeats the reason for his returning.

A minute or 2 later, he calls 'mayday, mayday' when it becomes clear that his continued drop in altitude [flightaware data] will not permit the plane to reach KFLL. The controller asked if he can make it to Fort Lauderdale Executive airport which is a bit north of FLL, and presumably closer to the position of the plane. I don't believe I hear that the pilot ever answer him after that.

The controllers sounded quite professional and continued to direct air traffic, including communications with police helicopters a couple of times, due to the unfolding emergency situation [search and rescue].

Please note if you can make out the communication more cleary than I did.
leo24d
Leonardo Ramirez 1
Thanks David,
I know Joel Lozano. I just have not been in Mexico for a while and wanted to see how things are.
phataj2008
phataj2008 -1
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Lear 35 Down off FLL

Mexican tail down right after takeoff... No other details yet.. Coast guard dispatched.


http://tbo.com/news/florida/jet-crashes-off-florida-coast-en-route-to-mexico-20131119/
geharper
geharper -2
Sounds like they got too slow doing the 180.
shattashaun
Shaun Schroeter -2
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

FAA confirms Lear jet crashed off Fort Lauderdale with four onboard

A search-and-rescue effort was underway Tuesday night for a private plane reported to have crashed in waters off Broward County with four people onboard.

The plane, headed to Mexico, went down around 8 p.m. about a mile off shore Fort Lauderdale, said FAA spokesman Kathleen Bergen.

There are unconfirmed reports that some of the victims have been brought to shore.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/11/19/3765558/coast-guard-says-small-private.html#storylink=cpy


http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/11/19/3765558/coast-guard-says-small-private.html