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Squawks & HeadlinesCause Of Russian 737-500 Crash Remains Unclear

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Cause Of Russian 737-500 Crash Remains Unclear

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The death toll from a Boeing 737-500 crash in Russia comprises all 44 passengers and six crew according to local safety officials, although so far the cause has not been established. The Tatarstan Airlines aircraft crashed on landing and was engulfed by fire at Kazan International Airport at 7:26 p.m. local time on Nov. 17. Kazan is about 500 mi. east of Moscow in the province of Tatarstan. The son of the president of Tatarstan is believed to be among those killed. The aircraft had taken off… (www.aviationweek.com) More...

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WALLACE24
WALLACE24 5
99% chance you are right when you cover virtually all the bases in one sentence. Lol
btweston
btweston 0
Well thank God you're here to clear everything up. Case closed, boys. This idiot is here and he brought his mouth.

[This poster has been suspended.]

dg1941
Damien Gehler 5
I mean this with no personal offense, but you seem to have a one sided idea of the world.
spatr
spatr 1
funny, that's what most of us say about you!
preacher1
preacher1 1
Sad part is, from the prelim, he may be right on the crew. His comment was made way before the prelim though. Prelim is saying pilot error, that they were still too high on 2nd approach and dropped the nose to get down, but too far.
spatr
spatr 4
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
preacher1
preacher1 2
LOL. For what it's worth, the prelim is posted on www.avweb.com
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 1
Does it signify lack of transparency or lack of technical know how or lack of adequate aviation laws ?
Or all three of these ?
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
Boeing and NTSB reportedly sending over reps. Does that mean we'll get some details in advance, of will ee have to wait for a report in 12-18 months?
ChadPeters
ChadPeters 1
http://www.planecrashes.org/russian-plane-goes-near-vertical-crashes.html

If it was a aerodynamic stall and the stall happened on its approach, how can the plane go vertical so quickly? Doesn't the plane "glide" a bit? I'm not pilot but I thought all planes glide or could glide. What am I missing?
jim1105
Jimmy Reagan 1
I hope they are able to recover the CVR to see the reasoning behind throwing the controls forward.
preacher1
preacher1 2
It may have wound up as technically that but as it was the 2nd or 3rd time around and the pilot told the tower that he was still not ready to land, there undoubtedly were some other problems. Although initial reports say they were damaged, the FDR and CVR will be the only thing that will give the real reason. It crashed, all are dead, R.I.P.
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 1
It was perhaps the second attempt, as per a cation to picture showing people laying flowers
" CRASH SHOCK: Russians in Kazan mourn on Monday the death of 50 people in Sunday’s plane crash. A chilling video broadcast by Russian TV stations showed the passenger jet going down in a steep dive and exploding in a giant fireball on the tarmac while making its second landing attempt at the Kazan airport "
Ref. URL
http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Default/Scripting/ArticleWin.asp?From=Archive&Source=Page&Skin=TOINEW&BaseHref=CAP/2013/11/19&PageLabel=18&EntityId=Pc01813&ViewMode=HTML

Yet another report says that inquiry has been ordered and Boeing have sent their team . Plus, another B737 has been grounded for check up !
Ref. URL
Russian authorities narrow focus of possible causes for Boeing 737 crash

http://atwonline.com/safety/russian-authorities-narrow-focus-possible-causes-boeing-737-crash?NL=ATW-04&Issue=ATW-04_20131118_ATW-04_774&YM_RID=anilmittal.1945@gmail.com&YM_MID=1433981&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_2

Wonder how long will they take to make any info public ? Even prelim kind ?
As per the caption in the picture, a witness says aircraft dived sharply and exploded on impact . What ever that means to you aviators !
preacher1
preacher1 2
As far as the info, you may never hear. As far as the sharp dive, something broke!
CaptainFreedom
CaptainFreedom 1
Agreed. Nearly vertical indicates a possible problem with the empennage.
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 1
Dear friend PhotoFinish, so now(with NTSB going there) this becomes international and hence ALL the protocols of diplomacy and cold war ! Visibly US-Russia cooperation but in reality US vs. Russia tussle of sorts . As always.
Sadly :-(
preacher1
preacher1 1
Just guessing, but probably the 12-18 months if at all
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 1
On avweb.com they are already reporting pilot error.
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 0
All. Russia.
preacher1
preacher1 2
I personally feel the pilot expertise may be decent; knowing they may be flying junk they may be up on their toes more, but 1 thing I have never heard when folks go to talking pilot error. It may be just that, an error, as very few want to commit suicide; most do everything in their power to keep that from happening. That is where the level of expertise comes in.
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 1
About expertise dear preacher1, I often say , acquiring a good machine or a product is way different from maintaining it to remain one (as good). And to my mind that's where the real expertise lies.
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 0
They drink vodka to get the courage to fly their airplanes.
dg1941
Damien Gehler 1
Theoretically should save them. It means water of life in old Russian.
preacher1
preacher1 1
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 1
That's because the water used to kill you.
dg1941
Damien Gehler 1
One thing that I would like to clear up is that one cannot justify the incident simply by regarding the location in which it occurred. In comparison, Russian aviation regulations are more relaxed than the equivalent American ones. As a person who deals mostly with European regulations, American regulations are more relaxed than the EASA equivalents, does this mean that I can just look at an American aviation incident and dismiss it because their regulations are more relaxed than my own? I think not.
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 2
Dear friend Damien Gehler, a small query.
Even if the local laws of countries vary, there are certain minimums specified by ICAO and ratified/accepted by all in the world !
So, ultimately safety standards are SAME , no matter which the country is !
No ?
dg1941
Damien Gehler 1
I'm not saying that European regulations are are better, that was simply an example of the attitude towards Russian regulations. What I am trying to say is that we can't judge others, but as you said, the ICAO has regulations that mandate global compliance, which would most definitely include Russia. The regulations that they (Russia) have set forth have met those specifications,and as a matter of fact, (this part is directed towards a few unnamed commenters) American regulations actually aren't much more thorough than the regulations set forth by the ICAO.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Most of the ICAO stuff was patterned after U.S. regulations to commence with as air traffic has developed in that part of the world, BUT, are not enforced near as stringently as the FAA does here. That is part of the reason that some countries are looked upon the way they are. It is not really a prejudice but they have earned part of that reputation by some of the lax enforcement of those standards, and a big part of that has been in pilot training and safety, as has been evidenced by some high profile crashes in the past few years. Just my opinion.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
More regulation isn't better but a greater commitment to safety does help. The numbers don't lie.
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 1
Dear Friends , allow me to remind you all about the mechanics of creation of municipal(national) laws based on International Covenants.
All signatories to such covenants or protocols and so on are expected to create laws commensurate with their respective local conditions. Which can and do include local law enforcement system/s.
In some places same requirement of safety can be met with less elaborate laws , BUT in some other country similar methodology may not suffice.
All depends on enforcement agencies and attitude towards compliance of laws.
In litigation happy society more laws will be necessary. In a corrupt system entirely different set will be deployed.
Yet ALL will have to be covenant compliant.
And in matter like aviation which spreads across the international borders there is absolutely no scope or place for complacency by any member state/country.
Hence many of you might have noticed that there is always SOME variation of regulations for domestic flying !
Easiest example, language for ATC-Pilots. For domestic flying , local language will suffice. BUT not for international flying.
MHCO (my half cent opinion)
dg1941
Damien Gehler 1
I would also like to point out that American regulations are quite relaxed. I know of many higher profile aviators from America, and even some airport events that blatantly break FAR's. Aerial application is probably highest on my list for times that I have seen regulations broken. From cutting off people in circuits at uncontrolled fields, to blatantly infringement of Class Bravo airspaces. Granted these haven't been deadly yet, but you can't really defend the FAA in enforcing regulations, because overall they just really haven't.
hamster1436
Hamster Vonk 0
Rudder? (Colorado Springs, Pittsburgh)
vincentvan
vincentvan -1
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Russia says pilot of Kazan crash had put the plane into nosedive

(Reuters) - The pilot of an airliner that crashed near the Russian city of Kazan killing 50 people had pushed the steering column to pitch it into a nosedive, crash investigators said on Tuesday, citing data recorder analysis.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/19/us-russia-crash-idUSBRE9AI0UC20131119