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Squawks & HeadlinesPlaintiffs Win Round in Oregon No Fly List

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Plaintiffs Win Round in Oregon No Fly List

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PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) -- A federal judge ruled that people placed on the U.S. government's no-fly list have a constitutionally protected interest in traveling by air, and the right to due process when it's denied. U.S. District Judge Anna J. Brown of Portland, in an opinion released late Wednesday, rejected the government's assertion that people on the no-fly list can travel by other means, and that being on the list does not deprive them of their liberty. She said it ignores "the realities… (news.yahoo.com) More...

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yr2012
matt jensen 2
Funny that someone name of Edward Kennedy would be on the list - but Sen Kennedy was and it infuriated him every time he flew. Even, he couldn't get off the list and they knew who he was.
RRKen
Kenneth Schmidt 2
I will agree to an extent that some reasoning as to why a person is on the no-fly list should be given. Only if that reason is not classified, and has been determined by an independent board or panel.

Right now we have panels or boards who determine what information can be declassified, and what must remain under guard. I see no reason the same could not be held in the cases of questions about the no-fly list.

Is it really a constitutionally protected interest to be able to fly by air? No one is saying you cannot go where you please, they just insist not by certain modes.
JetMech24
JetMech24 3
No, there is no right to fly, but I think the judge is saying that it violates our rights to due process, as in there is no due process with the No Fly list.
yr2012
matt jensen 3
Some people can't get a credit card - so they use cash. As long as the govt prints it, it's legal.
mfbutzin
mfbutzin 3
Pay cash for a airline ticket a few times and see what list you get on and it does not matter if your a Veteran or not!
JetMech24
JetMech24 1
It helps if you hit the little "Reply" under comments, like I just did here. But yes, I know not everyone can get credit cards or even bank accounts, as with any rule, there are exceptions.
mfbutzin
mfbutzin 0
Well if you have a bank account you can use your debit card, BUT your daily limit has to be high. I am not talking about those green dot type cards or the Netspend either.
JetMech24
JetMech24 2
Depends on the bank. My bank allows me to change my limits as often as I want and as much as I want, all the way up to No limit with my computer.
mfbutzin
mfbutzin 1
Yeah NOW BOA does but not back then it was 500 a day no matter what, unless you went into the bank and withdrew with your debit card. Then you had cash so it kinda defeated the purpose of having a card with visa on it?
JetMech24
JetMech24 1
Back in those days all it took was a phone call, I did it from Best Buy when I bought my first big screen.
mfbutzin
mfbutzin 1
Naw, I was IN the bank and asked for a higher limit. Which is why I switched to Compass
JetMech24
JetMech24 -4
Someone using cash for large purchases would be added to my list as well. Only criminals use cash anymore, I don't even know why they bother to print it these days.
mfbutzin
mfbutzin 2
Cash keeps you out of unwanted debt, most companies put a certain dollar mark on purchases go to the gas station in a small town and the will freeze up $100.00, same as a motel and in emergencies one may have to use cash. When I purchased my home I used a cashiers check for the whole amount. So cash has it's place.
JetMech24
JetMech24 1
Being smart keeps you out of unwanted debt. You cant use straight up cash or buy large items out right without being watched by someone, some where. Thats just the way it is these days because that is exactly how the "less than decent" people operate. Whether you like it or not, it is what it is. The "freeze" is only during the pumping, as soon as the pump is off your card is charged and what ever was left is immediately "unfrozen". Of course having some cash stashed away for emergencies is a good idea, but there are also a lot of places out there that won't take cash and it is only growing.
mfbutzin
mfbutzin 1
I went to New Orleans for a three day stay and the Hotel put a freeze on my whole limit and it took me 45 days to get it off. Each company has different rules for the amount and length of the freeze, at Shell it's 50 bucks for twenty four hours and that varies to each retailer.
JetMech24
JetMech24 2
I have never experienced any of those things and my debit card is the only thing I ever use. Maybe it's an East Coast thing?
mfbutzin
mfbutzin 1
Around Texas, Diamond Shamrock was the worst.
JetMech24
JetMech24 2
Does it still happen or was it when the technology was still new?
mfbutzin
mfbutzin 1
It happened at a Shell station and a Chevron, in fact Chevron would not allow me to pay at the pump. I had to go in and show ID. this was in the last month. My mother died on the 19th and I flew to Virginia beach and paid with my debit card and I was nearly stripped searched both ways, ever since I paid cash about 10 years ago.
JetMech24
JetMech24 2
Sorry for your loss. I have not had any of those things happen, but I haven't bought anything significant with cash for over a decade.
mfbutzin
mfbutzin 1
I was about to leave a body fluid sample for them.......
mfbutzin
mfbutzin 1
I am now back with BOA and have nearly 75 grand in the account, I was asked to remove all clothing in Myrtle Beach after a vacation because I stayed during the week and returned before the weekend , I was told this by the TSA people! every time I fly the clerk marks my tickets with a red markers and the whole family gets felt up by TSA in a separate room. So you put your card in the pump and then you have to go in and swipe the card again.
Pileits
Pileits 1
Some how, or for some unknown reason honesty, integrity and ethical application of law has been lost in America which can only lead to things becoming MUCH worse for Americans in the longer term.
JetMech24
JetMech24 2
"So you put your card in the pump and then you have to go in and swipe the card again."

The only time it has been an issue is when I ran inside to get something while the pump was still running, it got denied. Went back out, finished pumping, went back inside and worked just fine.
JetMech24
JetMech24 2
Unfortunately honesty, integrity, and ethics is dimishing by the day here in the US in general, not just law.
mfbutzin
mfbutzin 1
Yep it has happened lots of times and I immediately check my account to see if I am double charged for the purchase and it happened only once late at night which I disputed online and it still took three weeks to be reversed. So now unless I am alone someone is in the station with the card at all stations.
Derg
Roland Dent 1
Me and Preacher still have 'em.
JetMech24
JetMech24 1
Yes, there are exceptions of course :)
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 0
Can't say what all you're possessed with , but seems modesty ain't one of them.
Or there is some coded message for juat 2 of you.
;-p
Derg
Roland Dent 2
Ha Ha...Preacher and I both stand up for what we believe. That takes guts and some self confidence. Think of it this way. The guy next to you falls over...do you stop and pick him up...or are you shy/scared and walk on. No..stand up and be counted.
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 0
Dear Friend Roland Dent, I doubt if this portal is about bragging of authors' capabilities. Already there is plenty of chest beating in context of flying on this portal! And that too gets challenged in some blunt or subtle forms.
We all may have and DO HAVE some trait or other to be proud of. Which can be of use to society around the person. But many or most keep it under the wraps for obvious reasons.
Less said the better.
Moviela
Ric Wernicke 1
I think so many Americans are on the list to obscure the real purpose of the list. Why would a 6 year old girl or US Senator appear on the list?

I think the list is to exclude Muslim males between the age of 17 and 41 because they are the ones causing terror in the world.
pjshield
pjshield 1
Amen - it took a while to get to the heart of the matter. And you're exactly right here.
Regardless of PC, when a traveler sees "Muslim males between the age of 17 and 41 that are the ones causing terror in the world" going on our flight, we all shudder and consider various scenarios of onboard terror. Sad but true!
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 0
How irrational remark for you two to make, Ric Wenicke and pjshield . I guess, many many Afro Americans profess Islam. And many of them are between 17 and 41 ! So ?
Ever thought how many in the world perceive Americans as ?
Keep all this psychopathy to your back yard. If you can not talk sense, do not talk non sense. This portal is about aviation, not about your display of human madness.
Please.
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 0
It's strange and surprising that the legal system(U.S.) that gave the world the concept of "due process of law" clause seems to be the violator of the principle ! Many years earlier,English law gave us(the world) the principles of 'natural justice' incorporating there in amongst many the "right to be heard" (may be c. 1750).
Together they make a sound foundation of any and every legal process and system.
Any deviation or breach has always been held 'unconstitutional' ! In every non dictatorial jurisdictions of the world.
Derg
Roland Dent 2
You forget to mention the fact that if my daddy is bigger than your daddy then I can do what the F I wanna do.
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 0
Dear Roland Dent, you seem to have originated from a dictatorial descent !
Democracy or rule of law is not in your blood.
pilot62
Scott Campbell -1
What a waste of space ,,,