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Squawks & Headlines757s Being Cut from AA Fleet

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757s Being Cut from AA Fleet

Submitted
Looks like AA is starting to retire 11 757s in the year of 2012 unfortunately. Taking on a big 737/A320 series order. What beats me is that I still see more fuel burning MD80s still running. I guess they are going to take out the 757 before scrapping their MD80 fleet. Nothing against MD80s though... (finance.yahoo.com) More...

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flyingcookmosnter
Odd indeed with the same story over at Delta. Their 737-900ER order is to replace the 757s yet there plenty of MD88/90s around still smoking around.
s2v8377
I could understand more MD82 retirements in 2012 but not B752's. You'd think AA would want to go plane for plane with the B752's and new A320 familey aircraft.

Perhaps it's spin on not being able to cover service account of not having enough B757 B767 qualified pilots avaiable wih all of the retirements?

Regardless it is very sad to see the great airline in such trouble these days.
faerrflier
kevin swiss 0
Been flying on these AA 757-200's for 14+ years now - birds are old with very old interiors. Typical routes I have seen them were the JFK-SEA, YVR-DFW and MIA-SJU all routes could be serviced by 737-800's. This will put a strain on the amount of 737-800's as they were originally slated to replace the old MD-82s (not the ex-TWA MD-83s). So I presume the 757-200's will still be doing short transatlantic routes too long for 737-800's. Too bad, nice bird with good track record.
skyfly12
shawn white 0
Can the 757 fly across the Atlantic?
I think that they should replace the MD82s first also.
jcsflyboy
jcsflyboy 0
Yes, the 75 can go across the pond...from the east coast. AA Flt210 is a 757 from JFK to MAN. We used to fly to Glasgow and Dublin from the east coast and those were 75's as well.
canuck44
There are lots of factors here and I suspect we don't have all the information. AA is not in a great competitive position on the longer haul domestic routes, but probably does reasonably well in less competitive markets with the smaller aircraft.

We don't know which ones they plan to retire...ETOPS equipped are their international aircraft, but how many of the domestic are so configured and can be used this way. Conversion can be expensive.

They have a retirement problem and most of those leaving are 777, 767 and 757 pilots who want to lock in their retirement as they suspect AMR is going the Chapter 11 route.

The big unknown factor is whether AA has a buyer for them. This could be a huge issue for a company on the edge financially and needing to raise cash. The 75 has a much bigger secondary market than the various MD-80 versions given its ability to fill multiple roles.
HunterTS4
Toby Sharp 0
out of all the jets carrying pax these days,you will not see another get off the ground, out climb, and stop before the 75!
jcsflyboy
jcsflyboy 0
The current plan is to park (not retire) up to 11 (out of a 124) 757's in 2012, due to pilot retirements and the weak economy.
jcsflyboy
jcsflyboy 0
Oh, and in response to Toby's comment, he's right...
About ten years ago, I flew jumpseat on a 757 maintenance ferry, from DFW-AFW: 12K of gas. Vr was 109 knots - took about 6 seconds to get there. Going up to 4,000 ft, the VSI was pegged at 6,000 feet/min! From a dead stop on 35L, started leveling off by opposite end of runway.
Flight time was 8 mins. On landing the throttles were almost at idle...the empty 757 wanted to fly not land!
dbrooks84
David Brooks 0
AA placed a split order between Airbus and Boeing for replacement aircraft for the MD80s and 757s. Need to watch AA to see IF they really execute this large order. Right now it is an intent (LOI) and some speculation that this had alternative reasons and may not be ultimately executed.

757-200 with winglets are used by a number of carriers to fly the North Atlantic including AA, CO/UA, DL and some charter outfits.
HunterTS4
Toby Sharp 0
And let us not forget that the 75 is considered a "heavy" due to its wake turbulence because of its near perfect wing design.
tyketto
I can see both sides.

AAL did inherit some rather old B752s when it ingested^Wbought TWA, and the PW engines they had on them had some serious issues that ADs were put out for. But that also was fixed, so they should be okay. Also, they should be newer, if not the same age as their MB80s.

However, some of their MD80s, IIRC, are configured to have less than 80 seats, which I believe was the seat limit to be able to fly out of KDAL without stopping in a bordering state, as required per the Wright Amendment. That was what got them to fly to both destinations, despite KDFW being their hub. So they could be keeping the MD80s in the fleet for KDAL service, especially with KDAL being closer to the city (read: EGLC vs. EGLL, EGKK, or EGSS).

However, I doubt this is also only because of their B737/A320neo order. They were rumoured to be on the brink of bankruptcy, so it could have been more cost effective to keep the smaller narrowbody than one fit mainly for transcon legs. Their B738s can handle that, so the B752 is becoming less attractive for passenger flights. We may be seeing the first signs of them leaving passenger service permanently..
mriah32
Marlon Payne 0
767s started flying before the 757s,they're just as old,still tryna figure out why AA & DL still flying them MD80s,with no retirement plan for them...I wish they would've hung on to the 727s a lil while longer,if that's the case,they're both fuelaholics..
pilotgilland
Seems a bit strange,especially since the 757 has an advantage over the MD-80 in available seats.It loks as if the 757 fleet has more hours and probabably a slight loss in turn time.Sure will miss the 75,though.
NSGDC
Scott Keller 0
What's the deal here? Seems like a trend. 757 is probably my favorite plane to fly in as a passenger. The pilots I know who fly the 800/900 series are not very complimentary of them and suggest stability issues with stretched cg. Love to hear from a 757 pilot... are they as cool to fly as they seem? What's the knock on them? Isn't Wayne Bookout a 757 captain? What's the deal Wayne?
gocubbies
I have seen AA 752s in MAN,CDG. and LHR
s2v8377
To answer "Brad Littlejohn" AA no longer has any of the TWA B752's. They all found homes at Delta several years ago. Most of them fly out of JFK to Europe.

Also even if B752's are treated as heavies because of their wakes by ATC, they are NOT "Heavies". You can Google it and find the FAA statement in regards to the B752 status.

It is good to hear though in one of the other comments that it sounds like they're just parking them for now. That makes it sound like probably a pilot shortage driven move. Besides Captains retiring, current First Officers on B752' and B767 at AA may transfer to be Captains on the B738's and MD80's causing even more shortages for the types.

However dollars and sense wise you would think AMR would what to retire the MD80's ASAP and not the B752's. Especially since there are no new A320 family aircraft on the property yet. Not to mention the B752 provides far more flexibility for range and capacity.

As I wrote earlier I'm just sad to see American in such financial trouble.

Moreheadjames
Jim Morehead 0
It could be the short term pilot shortage, the economy, or the possible pending bankruptcy
BDLGUY
John Perrotta 0
I'm sure that FedEx would love to buy some AA's B757.
chalet
chalet 0
British Airways retired its 757 fleet last year arguing fuel efficiency issues so probably AA thinks the same way otherwise the ones to be sent to the Arizona desert would have been the MD80 series which do not enjoy good marks among AA pilots to put it mildly. No names of course.
bscopatz
Bob Scopatz 0
I used to love the 757, but lately when I've flown on one (usually on Delta), it was extremely uncomfortable--easily the worst passenger set up among the aircraft I'm usually flying. This is a combination of me being somewhat larger, but they've clearly crammed more seats into these planes than in the rest of their fleet.

I remember my first flight on a 757. It was on the too-short runway in St. Thomas, VI. They had to gun the thing to clear the mountain at the end of the runway. The 757 made it with ease. Very cool plane from an initial perspective. I'm sort of sad to see them nowadays.
bscopatz
Bob Scopatz 0
As a passenger, I used to love the 757. What a powerful plane. I remember flying it out of St. Thomas, V.I. and being impressed with its rate of climb (a necessity there if you know the airport).

Lately, though, I've come to dread being on a Delta 757. They seem to have moved a fair number of these planes to the old NWA routes out of MSP. The Delta 757s are cramped in the passenger compartment and just not fun to be on. I'm sad to see them go, but I won't miss their current configuration from a passenger perspective.
BigTuna
Tim Burga 0
Speaking as someone who lives directly under final for 17R at DFW, I *really* wish they would ditch the MD82's first.
toolguy105
toolguy105 0
The 757 is a great airplane and I'll be sorry to see it taken out of service. But both AA and DL are facing pilot shortages for the bigger planes 757/767/777. They have and their are more pilots available for hire for the MD80/90 and 737/A320 series available hence the large orders for those two plans. It should be of no surprise then that neither of these airlines have orders placed for either the 787 or A350. Only Continental and United which combined have 50 on order of the 787 and 25 of the A350 the first 787 is on the assembly line.

I believe Northwest had the 787 on order though it appears to have been cancelled.
dicecca13
Bill DiCecca 0
Interesting to see how many 757 fans are out there. I always preferred them (and the A319/A320) to the 737, mostly for what I perceived to be better resistance to turbulence.
bjohnsonmn
I am surprised no one has said the real reason DL and AA still fly MD/DC9's...
If you look on the back of the fuselage, you will find a sticker under the APU exhaust. It is the size of a bumper sticker.
It Says: "Paid For"
fabarber
Al Barber 0
Why would an American airline, especially one named American Airlines, buy jets built in anouther country. When will the heads of the airlines start buying American? Or should we start flying Aeroflot?
baldeagle1932
John Thurston 0
As a passenger I can say the 757 was the most uncomfortable aircraft I've ever ridden. The designer should have been made to ride economy class across the continent in one a few times, accompanied by the clown who designed the seating.
andreadebiase
Too bad because I find the 757 particularly cool looking. Perhaps the long body and the landing gear resembling the claws of an eagle. Don't know. Anyway i'm sorry it has to go. Most airplanes are cool of course but i find the 757 really nice followed by the 747, A340 and MD80.
chalet
chalet 0
Considering the current difficult financial situation of American Airlines -their stock dropped more than 50% over the past year- analysts are saying that the "contracts" that AA signed a few weeks ago comprising 250 B737-NGs plus a similar number of Airbus 320s might not go ahead at least in these proportions and that the 757s would likely continue flying for another five years at the very least, maybe more eventhough they show the wear and tear after providing 15-20 years of otherwise excellent service thus requiring substantial amounts of money to keep them in top condition.
john2k24
John Wool 0
AA has pulled out of KDAL as of a couple years ago. The configuration of less than 80 seats your thinking of was some of their old F-100's which where configued to I think 50 some odd seats.
preacher1
preacher1 0
controllers call it and treat it as a heavy due to that but it is just below the limit on the FAA interpretation
preacher1
preacher1 0
767 is wide body plus over the past few years the MD's have been going thru a complete reman at Tulsa, inside and out and may be newer in that respect.
preacher1
preacher1 0
personally, I like them, and Scott, I WAS, semi retired now. Doing just enough to stay current
s2v8377
AA B752 Trans-Atlantic from the east coast

JFK-MAN (AAL210-AAL211)
JFK-CDG (AAL120-AAL121
JFK-BRU (AAL172-AAL171)
JFK-MAD (AAL94-AAL95)

BOS-LHR
BOS-CDG
canuck44
I agree they are destined to be freighters and FedEx likes the aircraft as does UPS. I suspect though they will go for the 767-300s as they can get these with a conversion for much less than a new freighter ($29 to $32 Million converted) and American needs to unload these aircraft if they are to get any 787s.
canuck44
They still have 18 on order with Rolls Royce engines but long way out in 2020.
99NY
99NY 0
Yep...where they are fast-replacing the venerable 727 on the short-hauls.
s2v8377
AA has an understand with Boeing to purchase a good number of B787-9's. If think once American settles their contract with the pilots they will become firm orders.
bjohnsonmn
I'd look at switching careers to become a 7x7 pilot (from my lowly private raiting), if the initial pay was not so low...
canuck44
You are correct...a number of years back Northwest did a regression analysis that looked at using the MD/DC9 calculating maintenance costs and down time vs acquisition of new capital by lease or purchase plus their maintenance costs (very low first two years). The lines for the DC9 group crossed at around 15 years, but the cost of money was higher then and fuel not as big an issue. That line at the current low rates will likely be around 12 years out. That time is now just coming up and we see Delta retiring them rather than dumping more money for fuel pigs.
flyingcookmosnter
Amen reverend!
andreadebiase
Maybe for the same reason everything else that we buy is "made in China". Actually i would not be surprised if one day all our planes would come from there.
john2k24
John Wool 0
AA pulled out of KDAL (Love Field) a couple years ago. The aircraft you are thinking of that was modified under 80 seats was some of their old F-100's. All of their current MD80's seat around 140. As for the 752 leaving passenger service, that would be a sad day...
toolguy105
toolguy105 0
Not according to the Boeing Website when I cheated earlier today.
preacher1
preacher1 0
Scott: to add to that, I can't speak about the stretch as we had the 752 and not the stretch. I had heard a little of that but too far back to remember any details.
tyketto
They aren't called heavy anymore, and it was only the B757-300 series that was. The FAA adopted ICAO standards for this roughly 2 years ago and raised the MTOW limit for heavy aircraft to be above 300,000lbs, where previously they were at 255,000lbs. So a B757, regardless of series, is treated as a heavy as it always was, but is no longer called heavy.
s2v8377
A follow up to my earlier post. American's B787-9's are not listed on Boeing website as they are not firm orders. However AA has reserved the writes to purchase them, and probably production slots with Boeing.