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Squawks & HeadlinesMT Accident Indicates Pilot Was 'Noncertificated'

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MT Accident Indicates Pilot Was 'Noncertificated'

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A pilot flying to a company function in Libby, MT last month was "noncertificated", according to a preliminary report from the NTSB. The pilot and one passenger were fatally injured when the airplane, a Beech B100, impacted terrain just after midnight local time after being cleared for the GPS-A approach to Libby Airport (S59). He had reported the field in sight at about 7 miles and cancelled his flight plan. (aero-news.net) More...

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atcssct
Kevin Ford 2
Who cares where all the branches were. Tell us about the noncertificated pilot! What makes him noncertificated, etc...
chalet
chalet 2
100% with you, very poor report.
mpw64
mike walsh 1
He owned the company that owned the airplane.
treehouse4rent
Carlos Bea 1
So much conjecture. Amazing.
mpw64
mike walsh 1
From what I understand the PIC held only a Student Pilot certificate. He had flown this same route many times and in IFR conditions before but had never held a Private Pilot Certificate or IFR or MEL rating. You can go to the Daily Interlake web page for more info.
BENEKOS
BENEKOS GEORGIOS 1
The pilot reported rwy insight 7 miles SOUTH of the airport while the police officer reported him over the town that was NORTH of the filed turning to the airport. This means he did a go around and tried to return visually over unknown terrain with the fatal result.
atcssct
Kevin Ford 1
Wow Mike Walsh...hope his passenger was informed of all that prior to this flight! Also...how did he get the keys?
kg0ye
Griff Griffin 1
No real info here. Not worth reading. Besides, as a 31 year professional I never state opinions on another pilots action in a situation that I was not involved in. In other words, you need to be there.
atcssct
Kevin Ford 1
Griff...if what walsh says is true about the pilot, i dont see where opinions matter. Wow!!!
tarbaby
phil gibson 1
Was the passenger maybe a "certificated" pilot?? Maybe??
preacher1
preacher1 1
I'll add some speculation. See BENEKOS post below about the location. He raises an interesting point.
atcssct
Kevin Ford 1
All speculation is irrelevant if the guy didnt even have a pilots license!!!!!!
linbb
Boyd Butler 1
Ok but did that mean for IFR flight or what? Doesnt say there is something left out of the report.
linbb
Boyd Butler 1
Ha found out about the pilot from a person who knew him from Libby, he never had any licence. His family had always had airplanes thats how he learned. A few years back he started to get one. Didnt get very far into it either. No instruction he also had a jet that he flew but always had a pilot with him. The runway lights were on for there period of time and timed out. He went over a service station several miles away in heavy snow at about 300ft. This was before he would have turned final so he never could have had the airport in sight due to weather. It was also reported that this was not unusual for him to do either. No old bold pilot here just a dead one that took someone with him. All of this was told to my friend who knows several people there and who are pilots too.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Well, at 7 miles, he had the field in sight. Now, when the cop went to investigate/look, he observed the beacon lit and rotating but no runway lights. Did they just shut off when he crashed, which had probably already happened by that time>
james801
James Farnsworth Staff Writer 1
Post a link to the web page please Mike. TY
preacher1
preacher1 1
That's what makes this column go araound.lol
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
Some of those are turned on by plane (via radio), and will auto shutoff in a given period of time. 7 Miles Visibility seems like he should have made it, but lists fog... Sounds as though the entire report got too foggy.
james801
James Farnsworth Staff Writer 1
Try the ntsb report then. As a 33 year old pro lol. Seee my below post. And if you was ther to see you would be dead or since ur a pro may not have crashed thus all this is then BS and "Not worth reading"
james801
James Farnsworth Staff Writer 1
Look at the ntsb report in part."The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) reported that the pilot had been cleared for the GPS-A instrument approach procedure for the Libby Airport. The clearance had a crossing restriction of 10,700 feet at the PACCE intersection, which was the initial approach fix for the GPS-A approach. The pilot acknowledged that clearance at 2353. At 2359, the airplane target was about 7 miles south of the airport; the pilot reported the field in sight, and cancelled the IFR flight plan. Copy from the NTSB report. Once more CFIT i bet. I have known guys that have from 172's to one with a King Air 200 with no PPL or any at all. All of us with ATP's makes us sound cool. But it dont mean you can fly worth a S***. A lot of guys are CFI's and build the time but its hard to go from a 172 to a King air. Unless your Doug White N550DW he done it but with a lot of help. Poor man he got a good pilot and he died mid flight.
mpw64
mike walsh 1
Not according to the latest info.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Strange as it might have been, it could have been another plane. You wouldn't think so, that late and low but who knows.
kg0ye
Griff Griffin 1
That's what I said. I have and feel I should have no opinion.
preacher1
preacher1 1
tks, man and below too.
kg0ye
Griff Griffin 1
I'm not 33 yo I am retired and flew for a major airline for 31 years. We keep our views about other pilots misfortunes under our hat. Never heard another pro pilot in my career speak about what other pilots should have done. Personally, I'm affected when any pilot augers in. That's what real pros do.
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
Too a degree I agree with you... However, there are times to speak up.

Might sound like a made up story, but was riding jump seat in a fully loaded 737-200 (-15 engines). Due to the fuel crunch we were taxing on one engine. Capt called for the FO to start the number one engine, he could not get air to it no matter what he said and being young and not wanting to say something, I saw that the Cross Bleed Valve was in the Closed Position (Older Boeing pilots know what I am talking about) and it should have been in the AUTO Position. F/O Touched the switch 4 times and never noticed. He told the Captain that he could not get air to number 1. Captain did the same thing, touched the valve switch and did not notice that it was in manual closed. I figured being in Sterile cockpit if he could not get it open, that I would point it out, and I did. Just at that time we are at the end of the runway and the controller called out #$%^^& 4321 (not giving the company name) cleared for immediate take off. We turned onto the runway, just starting to motor the number 1. Number 2 engine at full takeoff power rolling down the runway. Just as we rotate, Captain pumped fuel into number 1 and immediately brought the power up to full power... First (and only) time I was scared in a plane. I do not remember who the captain was, but he thanked me as I departed the plane.
bovineone
Jeff Lawson 0
There isn't a flight on that day for N499SW, so it probably wasn't a full IFR flight even though the article mentions it being cleared for a GPS approach. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N499SW
preacher1
preacher1 1
Just kinda curious and I am in agreement that nothing was filed, but what about the NTSB report here that said he reported field in sight at 7 miles and CANCELLED HIS FLIGHT PLAN. I could understand one being closed, but CANCELLED. Did they close or did they just wipe it out completly. Obviously he got from Coolidge somehow????? Just curious
bovineone
Jeff Lawson 1
Looks like he actually was operating under an IFR flight plan, but under this ident and not his tail number:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DCM7005/history/20121219/0300Z/P08/S59
james801
James Farnsworth Staff Writer 2
The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) reported that the pilot had been cleared for the GPS-A instrument approach procedure for the Libby Airport. The clearance had a crossing restriction of 10,700 feet at the PACCE intersection, which was the initial approach fix for the GPS-A approach. The pilot acknowledged that clearance at 2353. At 2359, the airplane target was about 7 miles south of the airport; the pilot reported the field in sight, and cancelled the IFR flight plan. Copy from the NTSB report. Once more CFIT i bet. I have known guys that have from 172's to one with a King Air 200 with no PPL or any at all. All of us with ATP's makes us sound cool. But it dont mean you can fly worth a S***. A lot of guys are CFI's and build the time but its hard to go from a 172 to a King air. Unless your Doug White N550DW he done it but with a lot of help. Poor man he got a good pilot and he died mid flight.
preacher1
preacher1 1
I just wish somebody would answer my question up above about the lights. Once pilot activated, do they timer off or do they have to be cut off. I haven't used that in years and honestly can't remember. I just wonder if they timer off or if his crash turned them off. Obviously he had activated them as he called the field but the cop said none were on.
james801
James Farnsworth Staff Writer 1
I think 15 min is whats in the REG's on it. But it is on a timer. I dont think he had the field in sight at all. If he wanted to drop below the the MDA of 10,700 at PACCE. If he did not cancel his IFR flight plan he would have got a low alttued alert from ATC. Check out the IAP for that airport.I think he was still IMC and wanted to drop down to try and get in to land.
USAFcptnShades
USAFcptnShades 1
Preacher, pilot controlled lighting stays on approximately 15 minutes after being activated.
linbb
Boyd Butler 1
He said he had the field in sight that could have been just the beacon which would always be on with or without the runway lights. Him crashing would have made no diffrence had the lights been on as when turned on they time out after a period of time dont know how long.
calebhasler
Caleb Hasler 1
Yes, Pilot controlled lighting will time out after 15 minutes (standard according to AIM). You can "reset" the timer by clicking the mic again...3/5/7 times Low, med, high intensity lighting if the airport has the option. I usually will turn on the lights about 10-15 miles out so I can find the airport and then will reset the timer on final. In my experience, however, the lights will start to flash on and off for a few seconds before completely going dark. Also, "airport in sight" could have meant just the beacon and does not necessarily mean he had turned on the airport lights.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
Simmer down there old man, u don't want to blow an o ring, yours are out of production...
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
I am not sure what the regs say, but it depends on the airport. I think 15 is a minimum, but have seen some stay on for 30.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Well, I was wonderng that, if he just had the Beacon. Guess we won't know. Tks to all ya'll for the resonse on the lights. I was thinking timer but just wasn't sure.lol.

davysims
David Sims 1
The lights do not flash, just simply turn off. Making an airfield flash would be hard on the regulators.
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
LOL, you know him too I see.
linbb
Boyd Butler 1
Found out thru a good friend who knew the guy see my reply Ijust posted. The runway lights were on and timed out. A fellow he knows at Libby saw them on he is a pilot who lives there. And he could not have had the field in sight as it was snowing heavy at the time. He passed over a service station at 300ft the person could hardly see the AC. He was on downwind when that happened.
BenKFIT
Ben Lillie 1
Yeah, and they continue to stay on if traffic is announcing on the CTAF.
w7psk
Ricky Scott -1
Did Boyd Butler approve this message? He is the Owner of Flight Aware apperently