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Squawks & HeadlinesBoeing 787 Dreamliner reported on fire at Logan International Airport

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Boeing 787 Dreamliner reported on fire at Logan International Airport

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Boeing 787 Dreamliner reported on fire at Logan International Airport (www.boston.com) More...

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learjet25lafferty
david lafferty 6
I agree... bring back the L1011's!!
ArthurNetteler
Arthur Netteler 5
The new generation of Airlines are absolute "POS". Even when I started in the cockpit back in 1973, aircraft were NEVER out of service as much as the new ones are. They are not better airplanes, just higher priced!!
preacher1
preacher1 2
You and me started just about the same time, and if you think a little bit, it's not just airliners. Just look at cars and household appliances and now all the new technology gadgets that we have. All designed to be replaced rather than repaired.
I believe CHEAPLY BUILT is the operative word here but as you say, NOT CHEAPLY PRICED!
joelwiley
joel wiley 2
That said, it depends on a) what the definition of 'better' is and b) who does the defining.
wastiegreen
Alex Green 4
Hey Guys - Where are all the doom and gloom merchants about Airbus now??? Gone very quiet now that it is a Fly by Wire Boeing plane that is going up in unexplained smoke!!
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
The Boeing (aka McDonnell Douglas) AH-64 is fly-by-wire, and the pilots love it. Is there a major difference in how it works between a helicopter and a fixed-wing as far as reliability?
vanstaalduinenj
Jon Van Staalduinen 13
Park them and bring back the L1011's and MD11's from the desert until they fixed.
ArthurNetteler
Arthur Netteler 5
I retired in 2007, I was just starting to feel like a BACKUP for the on-board systems of the aircraft. It was not what I became a Pilot for!!
preacher1
preacher1 4
I did in 09 and was feeling about the same. Done some stuff since then and in a CRJ now for the old company and it is actually worse. To see the transition from a 707 thru a 767 is mind boggling.

[This poster has been suspended.]

preacher1
preacher1 2
Well, there are those younger ones that listened, and those that didn't. If they are unlucky, those are the one's we'll read about someday.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
From the perspective of the Pax back in 22A, the on-board systems are great- as long as nothing goes wrong. When it does, I'd rather have Preacher as PF than someone with 2,000 hr of flipping switches and pushing buttons.
louis5416
Louis SOMON 1
I agree 100% !!
cianmg
cian mac gearailt 3
leave fly by wire to Airbus is the conclusion
tbpera
Tom Pera 3
lithium ion batteries? fire in the same hole as 2 others.... carbon fiber airplane... don't like it, don't like it
jeeeeez what will be result if happens in flight?
evbutler
Ev Butler 3
Only the L=1011s. The DC-10s and MD-11s just couldn't cut it with their fuel use. Nice looking and reliable but not economical. The Lockheed was the "heat" and should be put back into production.
bishops90
Brian Bishop 1
See my comment above about FBW
ysfsim
Ant Miraa 1
What kind of remark is that? What does this incident have to do with fly by wire? And Airbus' fbw is not perfect either. If everything in aviation is perfect, the ntsb would be unemployed.
boughbw
Brian Bough 5
Good news: it's electrical. It could be mechanical or structural and that would be devastating.
Bad news: it's electrical. I hope they've pared-down the places on the system that are the likely culprit(s) by now.
dorkmo
james wise -2
worst news - its electrical, the plane is fly by wire
boughbw
Brian Bough 8
With any plane, there are redundancies built into it. This is the third incident of a 787 with at least smoke - United had one a couple weeks back and there was another one that had to emergency land back during testing. They'll iron it out. The backups are working.
TorstenHoff
Torsten Hoff 0
Actually, that's not the worst news.

The worst news is that it appears to be unrelated to the previous problems (APU, turbine blade failure). If all reported 787 issues had the same symptoms and root cause, there'd be one problem to fix.
linbb
Boyd Butler 1
They are saying its a battery.
rvasic
ratko vasic 2
This is SCARY, it reminds me on Microsoft policy: "let's first sell products and then we'll fix the problems"
kaeseke
I read that de 787 uses about 1.4 MW electricity. I.o.w. enough electrical power to supply 600 households. It also uses electricity where other airplanes use hydraulics. It should not be an airplane with electrical problems.
sparkie624
sparkie624 2
Bad news, but they know where to find the problem, so I am guessing Boeing already has a fix in mind for it.
vanstaalduinenj
Jon Van Staalduinen 2
Not an airbus vs Boeing thread, we left that in the third grade along with "my dad can beat up your dad"
vanstaalduinenj
Jon Van Staalduinen 2
Bishop is right, although here in Canada it's all over mainstream media. Big fat black eye for Boeing
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
True, but in a perfect world there would not be an airplane with problems, full stop.
wasclywabbit
John Berry 3
While I understand that any new aircraft is going to have some teething problems the number of electrical issue and resulting fires has me spooked. I'm not sure that I would fly the 787 right now.
bishops90
Brian Bishop 2
Geeeeeeezzz people. It was the battery that starts the APU while it's on the GROUND!
Take a reality pill and relax. It has nothing to do with the electrical infrastructure or the fact it's made of "plastic".
rarebear14
Dolf Brouwers 2
Brian is right, but its not the first issue with the 787
and there is another incident with a broken cockpit window...on a new plane ???
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Wasn't there another one or two window cracking incidents? If so, I wonder if the windows were from the same lot.
RobSJC
RobSJC 2
In agreement with Jon Van Staalduinen, Lets get back to using something previously proven . .Why not just update with the new aloy skin and fuel saving engines ? You can always configure with the current day passenger perks !
airclaxon1
Paul Claxon 1
The more the wiring, the more danger, you can't believe how much wiring in on these new aircraft.
vanstaalduinenj
Jon Van Staalduinen 1
Makes you wonder why they have not beet crunched into razor blades and soda tins yet
vanstaalduinenj
Jon Van Staalduinen 1
I count about 2 dozen still in Delta colors in the desert
KW10001
Kylan Walters 1
rarebear14
Dolf Brouwers 1
Regarding 'fly by wire' , pilots who learned to
fly these electric jets , lack the 'seat of the pants'
flying skills ( except those who learned to fly a glider)
Look at the horrible accidents with fly by wire
planes in the last 10 years such as the AirFrance
crash over the Atlantic. Frozen sensors and software
not coping with these occurences... and a panicking
cockpit crew.....
ams228
Arthur Shulman 1
Speaking solely as a passenger with no technical expertise but with a lifelong love of flying and aircraft, these comments on the 787 make me feel as though I ought not get on one of these planes for a few years.
devsfan
ken young 1
Sabotage? These failures are simply too convenient
wrkruspe
bill kruspe 1
Give it a rest. Can't anyone see what this administration is trying to do to Boeing ?
Does anyone remember SC, Boeing , and the Fed at Boeing's throat ?
ALL new aircraft have minor problems. If you actually KNEW what these published problems were , you would realize they are blown way out of proportion.
Case in point. SOMEONE, forgot to replace a fuel vent valve on a JAL 787 after fueling.But, no we won't mention that! This, OBUMMER media makes me sick.
vanstaalduinenj
Jon Van Staalduinen 1
Too bad Lockheed never developed a wide body twin, would have been pretty slick
thomjt77
thomjt77 1
It was a ground restart battery system. Sounds like something on the ground was hooked up incorrectly to blow the battery. Also 2 incidents at Logan in 1 week, ????
ysfsim
Ant Miraa 1
So that was the problem. Funny how people quickly blamed the plane without the investigation being complete. The media is generally inaccurate when it comes to technical things like aviation.
vanstaalduinenj
Jon Van Staalduinen 1
Upon further research most if not all of the L1011's have been crushed. Same with most of the DC10's other then the ones FedEx saved. Look, the 787 is going to be fabulous plane, just give it some teething time.
RobSJC
RobSJC 1
..And now reports of a second 787, in two days ... with problems, this time a fuel leak was noticed just prior to take off at BOS.. and again JAL
preacher1
preacher1 3
Not typed in any of them. That said, all of the later planes have pieces of it in there. As I understand it, the functions are still there, just eletric and computer assisted rather than hydraulic. I mean you have throttles, trim, flaps, spoilers, etc. No plans to go there but I was doing some looking the other day and while the 777 is basically a FBW, there is no difference in basic controls of the 767, in which I am typed. I think our problem is a generation of button pushers, guys that only push a button or flip a switch that automates those basic functions, rather than staying manually proficient on them and knowing how to fly the plane.
rarebear14
Dolf Brouwers 1
@preacher1 : exactly right !!!!
louis5416
Louis SOMON 1
Bravo !! Well said !!
preacher1
preacher1 2
Nah! snakebit, just a string of bad luck. They could just as well happened in Japan and we'd never have heard about them. They just all happened to happen at Boston cause that's where the flights arrive/depart from.
preacher1
preacher1 2
stuff happens
sparkie624
sparkie624 2
It is not as big of a deal as the media makes it out to me... Take what the media says with a grain of salt. Where this has gotten a lot of media attention, it is not nearly as bad as it is made out to be Bad news sells and thus makes them money. I have worked in the airline industry from a maintenance stand point and seen how the media makes a small nothing into a big deal and makes money off of scaring people and perfecting non news in to something that looks like news. Best thing is to ignore them and keep going
bishops90
Brian Bishop 1
FBW is not the issue with losing "seat of the pants" piloting acumen. As Preacher says below, it's button pushing automation.
You get seat or the oants feel by manually moving a control lever and feeling the plane respond, not necessarily by the mechanical acutaltion of the actual control surface.
Hell I didn't realize for a year that my new car didn't even have a throttle cable! It's all electronic. I move the pedal, the car speeds up. Does it matter if there's a mechanical linkage, a cable, or potentiometer and servo?
preacher1
preacher1 1
Well as far as 2 incidents at Boston. If it's ANA, that's where they'll be, as far as East Coast goes, with regular service in/out of there
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
Not sure if this still applies, but back in the day that car manufacturers did a major remodel to a car (I think it was every 4 years) to encourage the public to want a new model, my dad always waited until the 2nd year the "new" version was out. His mantra: never buy a first generation, wait until the kinks are ironed out. Sounds like the same thing with the 787 and probably a lot of new products. (Please don't let the 787 be an Edsel.)
preacher1
preacher1 1
I really think one reason that everybody is uncomfortable with FBW is the fact that hydraulics have been there so long and very reliable. Same with your throttle cable and other mechanical linkage. That said, over the years, there have been problems with these others as well. Technolgy will advance and FBW and it's derivatives will become accepted and we will go on to something else. As I have said, in years past, we haven't had Internet or National media to let us know almost instantly of every little happening. In addition to that, we now have the exaggeration factor, in wihich a cut finger in ATL this morning becomes a broken arm in LAX in early afternoon.
rarebear14
Dolf Brouwers 1
There is also the issue of carbon fibre composites, aluminium has a memory, it can take only a certain number of stresses. Composites are light , strong , but they break if overstressed. What is the lifespan of a composite airplane ?
Only the future will tell !
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Preacher, do you think the 'instant information' phenomenon has had an effect on the overall attention span of the public? Is seems with the information overload, things just get lost more quickly. Or am I just getting old?
preacher1
preacher1 1
I didn't see this earlier Joel or would have responded earlier. In a nutshell, there dosn't see to be an attention span any longer than what the media keeps an item out there. They kep Sandy Hook in the foreforefront for about 2 weeks and it was on the tip of everybody's tongue. Then the started shifting focus and now, to a whole lot of folks, it's just something that happened as have all the rest of the similar tragedies have come and gone.
bentwing60
bentwing60 1
Very scary, and the only better place for it to occur is the maintenance hangar.
FedExCargoPilot
FedExCargoPilot 1
I think I will keep flying the a380 for now
jbermo
James Bermingham 2
Ok - Go ahead and try to operate an A-380 on the BOS-NRT route.
ysfsim
Ant Miraa 0
Didn't the a380 start out with wing cracks and engines blowing out?
Cactus732
Cactus732 1
This is the most scary report i've heard about the Dreamliner. Modern jetliners can deal with Engine Failures, and minor electronic malfunctions fairly comfortably, but if any kind of fire were to happen in flight, that has the potential to cause numerous fatalities.
AABABY
FRANK MARTINOLI 1
High tech airplane being supplied by the lowest bidders. What can possibly go wrong?
rarebear14
Dolf Brouwers 1
Its like the spaceshuttle, O rings by the lowest
bidder.... We know know where that leads !
tbpera
Tom Pera 0
wow! looks like they have big time electrical problems... isn't this the 3rd or 4th one? Think I'll skip riding on the 787 for a few years until they get things figured out
flyingcookmosnter
flyingcookmosnter 4
Im just as much as a boeing fan as the next yank but I think Tom is right. I hope Boeing comes out with a strong statement or they see those options start to evaporate.

I would still ride a 787, what a beaut.
linbb
Boyd Butler 5
It was a battery slow down on your WOW. That can happen on any AC and even in your car.
Fido7585
Fido7585 -4
Unfortunately, Boeing has shot itself in the foot with the 787. Badly assembled fuel system components leading to potentially disastrous leaks, batteries bursting into flames - all these faults indicate poor quality control in the assembly of the plane, ineffective quality testing prior to delivery - sure signs that the plane was rushed into service before it was properly sorted. Car manufacturers have been using the public to do its final testing for years, but with aircraft this is not a sensible policy. I wouldn't fly in a 787 at the moment - possibly not ever!
learjet25lafferty
david lafferty -4
Talk about a mess boeing has with it's 787's "dreamliner's" There a joke!!!
ysfsim
Ant Miraa 1
Boeing should have kept the bulk of the work on the plane at home. I remember during development, some parts sent from overseas did not fit in assembly.
evbutler
Ev Butler -1
I have never figured out why they took the L-1011s out of service. The MD-l1s were gas hogs and weren't practical to keep in service. The L-1011 was one of my favorite crates. I wish that Lockheed would hire a good sales staff and bring them back. It was a beauty. Lockheed and Rolls Royce went through a lot just to drop the ball. Poor sales was the reason but I'm a believer that it could be sold with a proper sales staff and publicity program. I believe in progress but you can't beat perfection and the 1011 was pertnear perfection, IMO.
rarebear14
Dolf Brouwers -1
These electric planes are flying Casinos !
in the end you loose your money and in the worst case your life ! and all this because fuel gets
more expensive..
And now a plastic plane.... OMG !
jbermo
James Bermingham 3
3 engine airplanes were only an interim until 2 engine ETOPs airplanes were proven. It's all about fuel ya know.
preacher1
preacher1 3
Well, 16 years was a long ride for the L1011 as an interim. A big part of the l-1011's problem was with Rolls Royce's problems with it's financial condition and not the Airframer. Seems like they could carry 350-400 people, depending on config and were one of the first with auto land. They have probably thought about briging them back, but you probably wouldn't see anything close on fuel as these newer twins, and that is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. Knowing DAL Tech ops, anything is possible though.
sparkie624
sparkie624 3
The L-1011 was sorta like Studebaker of its time. Well ahead of itself. It was an excellent plane that did more than anyone else. It did have some maintenance issues. I know people who have worked on them and they say one of the worst items of that plane was the Cargo Compartment Door Rigging. All Electric and involved 14 relays to close and another 14 to open. A real night mare... But working well, she was the king for many years. There are still a few around and getting more rare every day.
hjfischer1
Herb Fischer 1
To guys without Tristar Time it might seem like Ev is going a bit overboard. He's not. Talk to 10 guys who flew the L-1011 and at least 8 will say "Greatest Airplane I eever flew." Everything worked as advertised, it met or beat the Charts- but the 10 came out a little earlier and was a little cheaper. Heard that the early RR 524's had some lube problems, but our 524B4's on the -500 were wonderful- "Happiness is an N3 Gauge."
preacher1
preacher1 1
Where you been anyway? You ain't been on here in months.
hjfischer1
Herb Fischer 1
Been reading it- I guess it just took Tristar comments to wake me up! Reminds me- flying a brand new 777 across the Right Hand Pond in late '95...... a Delta guy comes up on Common and asks me if I'm in a 777........."Affirmative." "How do you like it?" "Fine.... it might be a Video Game but it's a nice video game. What are you in?" "1011-500" "I'll trade you even." "You must be Former Pan Am- me too." "Come up on Pan Am Common...."

I'll never tell what Pan Am Common is (was).

Dang! Am I ever 'way off thread! Sorry about that!

Gotta go........ I'm going to buy some Boeing Stock when you Doomsayers run it down!
preacher1
preacher1 1
Did you ever 747 train at Roswell?
AABABY
FRANK MARTINOLI 0
Sturm und drang!

[This comment was deleted.]

wrkruspe
bill kruspe 1
post in english you moron.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
well, "Sturm und Drang" is found in Webster's. So perhaps its usage is in the English language- thus it may well already be 'in english'
AABABY
FRANK MARTINOLI 0
Fire, smoke and jello. In other words, Bla,bla,bla.
Your rude comments aren't needed Mr. Kruspe.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 0
I believe I'm correct in saying there's a more civilized and appropriate way of getting your thought across, Mr. Kruspe.
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
Only idiots speak when there is nothing worth said is being spoken... Either speak constructively, or nice knowing you... Well forget the last part. :)
wrkruspe
bill kruspe 1
No, Donna. In America we speak, ENGLISH !
Only a moron would post in a foreign language.
Stupid is, as stupid does.
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
Agreed, and in the Aviation Industry, English is the universal language around the world.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum -1
No, Mr. Kruspe, people with social skills and and a broader perspective welcome and encourage diversity. How do you ever learn when living with such a closed mind? (That's a rhetorical question, incidentally._)
devsfan
ken young 2
Umm DOnna, you knwo what you can do with your "diversity"..Think where the sun don't shine.
This is America. We speak and write ENGLISH here. Don't like it? Don't let the door hit you on the way out..
We're SICK of political correctness.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
Mr. Young - I had thought this issue was done and dusted. However, I will respond to your note. You seem to be unaware that at one time your ancestors emigrated to America, as did everyone who now lives here, other than Native Americans. I wonder what and / or where you would be today had they been told to let the door hit them on their way out. You display a very un-American philosophy. And since when is it offensive to speak anything but English. Some people's narrow-mindedness is astounding. What, may I ask, is so wrong about being correct?!
preacher1
preacher1 1
Donna, I am not endorsing the gruff attitude, but I for one am tired of diversity and pressing "1" for Englis. As Sparkie says, English is the universal language of aviation, and while Mr. Martinoli makes his comment below, I guess it apparently struck some nerves, on thread or not. Frank, no offense taken but I for one ame tired of diversity and political correctness.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 2
I get it preacher, and as it is off thread this will be my last: I agree those issues have been taken to the extreme, however, whatever has happened to what the Statue of Liberty stands for? Diversity is exactly what makes this country of ours so great. I get it that English is the universal language of aviation - but I wonder for how long. Mandarin is the most widely spoken language on the planet - some day maybe, eh?
AABABY
FRANK MARTINOLI 2
Donna. English is the language of aviation. I know that.
I wonder if there's an official language of internet?
By the way, I heard that at some time in the past that Russian is the official language for spaceflight ops. Any updates to that?
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
No idea Frank, but I'm sure there's tons to be found on the net. As far as the internet language is concerned - all rules seem to have gone out the window. Be well and stick to your guns. It's nice to read all the posts particularly those by people who are advanced enough to not have to resort to being rude.
AABABY
FRANK MARTINOLI 1
As I said. "Now let's drop it as not related to the general subject."
Peace.
devsfan
ken young 1
You are fighting a losing battle.
You are twisting the meaning of what the Statue of Liberty represents. FYI, those immigrants who's first vision of this country was that Statue. The next thing they thought of was "how do I become an American?"
We have a common language and a DISTINCT culture here.
Last shot at your dopey comments....GO LEARN MANDARIN...Be my guest.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 0
Not surprising you don't understand irony or a bit of humor. For your information, I'm not fighting any battles. I'm stating my opinions. I am entitled. (PS-glad to hear it was your last shot-you're an ignorant bore.)
AABABY
FRANK MARTINOLI 1
preacher - none taken. I'm pretty much against political correctness in all it's forms.
No reply required.
AABABY
FRANK MARTINOLI 0
Geez! I had no intention of creating a firestorm with a quote from Wagnerian opera. Thanks for your support, Donna.
As for Officer Kruspe, Take a line from West side story.
AABABY
FRANK MARTINOLI 0
Now let's drop it as not related to the general subject.