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Squawks & HeadlinesEmergency vehicle may have run over one of Asiana crash victims

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Emergency vehicle may have run over one of Asiana crash victims

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San Francisco's medical examiner is now conducting an autopsy to determine the cause of the girl's death, fire department spokeswoman Mindy Talmadge said. "One of the deceased did have injuries consistent with those of having been run over by a vehicle," Talmadge said. "Many agencies were on the field yesterday." (www.reuters.com) More...

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onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 3
Sad and terrifying event....Thoughts and prayers to everyone and the families involved.
james801
James Farnsworth 4
The dam news needs to have respect for the dead no matter how it happened and to me has no business reporting this. It’s about like saying the pilot crashed the airplane on purpose no one that’s coming to help save life would try n run over a person but it could happen. Kind of like the fog of war in a fire fight. The family’s don’t need to have to see this on tv.
TXCAVU
Elizabeth Robillard -1
British News had published pics of one of the gir;ls parents at the moment they were told of her...and published their(parents) names along with the names of the pilots.Bet they publish the names of the first responders...just watch.
james801
James Farnsworth 5
they will but it ant right in my book...
Derg
Roland Dent 1
I agree Elizabeth. The UK press has no moral compass. They always pick easy targets. I live in the UK and I don't read any of the stuff they publish.
Flightdog
Roger Curtiss 2
I cannot help picturing this girl walking away from the airplane, fixated on her smartphone, as every 16 year old seems to do these days, and typing "Wow, I just survived a plane cr..."
Cactus732
Cactus732 2
I tell you what, you know your number is up if you managed to survive the crash and then die like that.
TXCAVU
Elizabeth Robillard 2
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/video-shows-passengers-escaping-evacuation-slides-article-1.1392710

Video at bottom of page shows the passengers exiting the plane and, related to this post, the arrival of the SF Fire equipment on scene. While tragic, there will be some procedural changes to managing the scene.

Note how there is no one on the ground directing these passengers, as noted by the crew of UAL 885, and so people are running in every direction, several hundred people.
TXCAVU
Elizabeth Robillard 2
Must be true because the SFFD made a formal report to the airport FD stating a victim had been run over and was dead. She could easily have, in shock, sat down or collapsed which is one reason they will determine if she died from internal injuries or as the result of the accident. Many of the injured have serious abdominal trauma because they were not in the brace position at the time of the crash. Additionally the "whiplash" which occurred as the plane porpoised has paralyzed some and caused sever spinal injury to others.
preacher1
preacher1 1
CBS was saying 2 paralyzed and the 2 dead, on this morning's news.
NF2G
David Stark 1
"Scene of chaos." I guess all that training and simulation they do for such events goes right out the window during an actual crash.
preacher1
preacher1 1
They are also saying that whichever one was PF, that he had little time in the 777 and that this was his first landing at SFO. IDK where they got that at, but that's just what they said. Whichever, if they would have called for goround at 7 seconds instead of just speed, however close, they might have made it.
Av8nut
Michael Fuquay 1
How tragic. Here this person is so glad to be alive after such a horrendous crash landing, to be away from the wreckage, to breathe fresh air after a 10 flight, only to be run over by a emergency vehicle.
sddaledawson
Dale Dawson 1
How bout we let this blog go it was tragic that anyone parished at all for what every reason have some respect
pilot62
Scott Campbell 1
Because this is a major major issue !! for any further rescue efforts and training, fro god sake's man! To stop the conversation and just forget means we never learn anything m,aybe go back to twitter if your not happy here.
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 1
I think I must think and behave like myself. A matured professional , groomed to always adopt an approach of scientific analysis no matter what the nature of problem is . Even prosecutors all over the world do not race down to courts WITHOUT sufficient evidence. And definitely never with half baked information. Every prosecutor worth her/his salt knows the caustic counter attacks that emerge from defense as well as not forgetting the reprimand from the bench in no uncertain terms, like adding insult to injury.
So no more participation in all these useless speculative brick batting by me!
jhwenger
jhwenger 1
SF Police report confirms she was indeed run over. Coroner has not yet released official cause of death. May not for one to two weeks.
TXCAVU
Elizabeth Robillard 2
Aviation and airline officials said although the pilot has flown a Boeing 777 nine times - for a modest 43 hours in total time in type.
preacher1
preacher1 8
Well, love him or hate him, Sully spoke the truth this morning when he said that everybody at one time or other was low time in an aircraft. Flying is Flying and while the basics are the same, each AC type just has a different way of getting to those numbers. I'm wondering about CRM practiced or lack of it, on all the oriental airlines, just simply because of the culture. Status and position is a very big part of that culture. Not only would the Captain have it as having made the grade but FO might not have said anything on correction out of respect to him. Knowingly or unknowingly, it may have been total lack of CRM as we know it and "Captain is God" atmosphere prevails. CRM is designed as a check and balance, besides a system of equality.
james801
James Farnsworth 2
Very well said...
Derg
Roland Dent 1
Hiya Wayne. You know this machine very well. On an average day in SF this tiume of year how long does it take to spool up these engines? What sort of height would you need? I agree entirely about the CRM stuff. Humanity. Personally I would have flight crews dress in coveralls. Forget the bands on the cuff. Just a name tag with blood group and a simple PO and FO tag would get rid of the nonsense.
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 1
What role "culture" has to play in professionalism ? How many air accidents involved "oriental" and how many 'non orientals' ? Every institution has its own culture and tradition for the learning process. What is your take on institutions like Harvard or Berkeley or Stanford or Oxford and Cambridge and so on. Goal for every one is same. You seem to be a great expert on aviation, please enlighten me if the simulators are "culture" sensitive ? And are there any "grade or special marks" on the basis of cast, colour or creed built with into the simulator or in the Aviation Safety Rules ?
We live in global village. So as the current saying goes, 'think globally , not locally'.
Thank goodness, people like you with such biases do not hold important positions in places like NTSB or FAA and so on .
SWEATINTHSWAMP
SWEATINTHSWAMP 1
Why in the world would anyone hate Sully?
preacher1
preacher1 1
We have CRM here, but the CULTURE in Southeast Asia, particularly South Korea, is one of status and position and it is ingrained into the children from birth. It is almost like the caste system in India. CRM in the cockpit would go 180degrees against that and place a lesser being on an equal level with a senior, or one who had accomplished more, FO vs. Captain.No place for that in a cockpit but because of the nature of their society, it could be. I'm only speculating. The interviews today should clear it up.
preacher1
preacher1 1
3-5 seconds for spool up, depending on the engine, for 75% about 6-7 for full
Derg
Roland Dent 1
Would 75% be enough to get this machine out of the stall..given that the fuel load would be minimum.?
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 1
Right you are about oral evidence from crew and even passengers and ATC personnel. Even armed forces all over the world blindly follow system of line of command! And in the event of an incident some one HAS to accept responsibility, singularly, as a group or collectively. Be it an act of bravery or an act that brings shame.
And all this oral evidence will have to be corroborated by hard evidence from BB and voice recorders included.
Again believe it or not, cultures will have no role to play or influence the findings. Why ? Because "BB" is not culture sensitive . Or is it ?
preacher1
preacher1 1
Tight but probably; either way, there was not enough time
preacher1
preacher1 1
I don't think it will influence it but it would not surprise me if it was found to be an underlying cause. We'll see.
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 1
Compromising safety on some excuses is nothing short of murder. And that can not and should not go unpunished, which ever be the society or jurisdiction. Remember, besides the usual investigating agencies, there are citizens of various countries involved here demanding justice through legal means and channels.
Derg
Roland Dent 1
Really that question was a little unproffesional for me to ask, but I have to tell ya..I don't know what your SOPs are but one of my hands was always on the throttle during TOs and landings. In fact any turns I always had the throttle held. Watching the Boeing test crews on video as they brought along the 787 was a real education in how to fly. I don't know if Boeing has the facility to train £rd party customer crews in Seattle but ...hey...they have so much to teach. And as for these waggle sticks..well..I would run a mile. I would work in Siberia or Alaska to avoid that system. I'd rather take the late shift on an MD-11.
preacher1
preacher1 1
They have a training crew, I think, for when a customer takes delivery of a new type O customer request, but I don't think the have anything at Seattle. idk. You know me, I am old school. All the automated stuff is nice but it is for cruise time or up there somewhere. I have always liked to hand fly one out and in. Most case, at 10 grand + you are away from all the crap and that is the time for it.
Derg
Roland Dent 1
Agreed 100% Thanks for the candid reply.
NF2G
David Stark 1
Probably not as relevant as it is sensational sounding. Every high-time pilot was a low-time pilot first. Not every low-time pilot crashes.
TXCAVU
Elizabeth Robillard 1
Sadly there does not appear to have been crew on the ground directing the passengers and so they wandered away from the aircraft, some to the bay waters 800 feet away.
RECOR10
RECOR10 1
First time at SFO in a 777. He had been to SFO in the past (according to Fox)
preacher1
preacher1 1
10-4, tks
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 1
More over the guy has been flying many models including 747 too! A much taller aircraft! Further at the precise moment he was landing "under supervision" of an expert 'supervisor' assigned to the job ! So, my humble request to ALL , " no blame game " please. Wait n watch.
onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 1
in the 747
Cactus732
Cactus732 1
Landing a 777 in SFO shouldn't be that different to landing a 747 in SFO, if anything you would expect him to come in high because of the different perspective of the 747 flight deck. All in all it's a pretty astounding error from a pilot of that experience.
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 1
Right on, no difference between landing a 777 or 747 . Like driving car model A and model B . I agree with you that cockpit height of 747 is much higher than that of 777 and hence perspective wise guy in 777 may be more careful. BUT considering the current scenario of instrumentation, who depends on visuals ? It is ALL virtuals and instruments ! So , let us see it from this angle also. Therefore, wait and watch for oral evidence from the cockpit crew followed by black box corroborations . Speculations will be bad for the persons and their families involved in this accident , passengers and crew alike.
NF2G
David Stark 1
Speculation bad, calling for punishment good. Uninformed comments about the way airliners are flown good, too.

Such I derive from your comments.
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 1
My simple and humble view is, the speculations are serving no useful purpose. Not helping to conclude the causes to fix responsibilities and issue guidelines to avoid similar mistakes in time to come as well as to take corrective measures , both regarding men(people) and machinery(aircraft/s).
Every preliminary observation is heavily accompanied with certain caveats ! And we, the bloggers, merrily overlook them. Am I right that every event is a combination of many many sub events and factors and no two events are same in their details? Although seemingly they may appear same. Yes some of the sub events can be same but not all. And that is why one event absolutely differs from another. And deserves different treatment. Yes, principles and tools of investigations may be same. But that also, upto certain extent. Special sub events, special tools .