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Squawks & HeadlinesThirty Amazing Facts About Private Jets

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Thirty Amazing Facts About Private Jets

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President Obama recently called for the elimination of “tax breaks for private jet owners,” painting anyone who doesn’t cram themselves into 28 inches of economy legroom as a fat-cat wastrel. (www.forbes.com) More...

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bishops90
Brian Bishop 14
" 10,397 people “like” the Gulfstream Aerospace Corporation on Facebook. Only 63 people “like” the Transportation Security Administration."

'Nuff said.
sparkie624
sparkie624 4
2nd that.
KW10001
Kylan Walters 7
I work as a line service tech. Private jets bring jobs to millions of people in the US. From the refineries that sell millions of gallons of JetA and 100LL, to the huge mx firms that fix airplanes, outfit them with cool gadgets, redo the interiors and so on. Not to mention, business people who use private jets almost always use them to get to destinations in order to do business. One of our clients, who owned a G550 N282Q, traveled all over the world for his medical company, selling products and raking in money by the billions that the US government would in turn, TAX. I see eye to eye with democrats when it comes to social issues, but democrats as a whole have no idea how an economy works.
bjd44k
Barbara Davis 3
This article talks about "flashy" aspects only; not the positive uses. When Cessna introduced the original Citation, we sold some to individuals, but most to company accountants. That is still true today. The ability to get to a destination, or destinations, in a minimal time at peak efficiency is a major reason to own a corporate aircraft. When you can visit 3-4 sites, get your business done, and return home in one day; it is a good and proper use.
I won't dwell on it, but you might remember how many people aviation manufacturing employs (or did before we became "BAD") and how many aircraft were sold overseas to the benefit of our trade deficit.
Slytiger
John Langdon 2
The part of VNY being the busiest GA airport in the world is a little off too. According to the ATADS report DVT had over 100,000 more operations in 2012 than VNY.
bbabis
Bill Babis 2
The only thing amazing is how bad Forbes has become. Very poorly done article by Forbes. It looks like a quick google search conglomeration with no checking of facts and poor or no editing. A waste of time and energy.
HunterTS4
Toby Sharp 1
probably including the big iron

chicoaggie
Tim Smith 1
KDVT is mostly, if not all, student training ops. Private jets use KSDL down the road.
suz
suz 2
Who's the "Fat Cat" here? Air Force One never seems to shutdown engines. Oh yeah, he's still in Florida - private golf lessons with Harmon and private golf with Mr. Woods. Phony. And, wifey is vacationing in Aspen - taken there by yet another commercial-size private jet ... Integrity? None. Taxpayer dollars? All we need.
chalet
chalet 2
No wonder that execs were mad at Obama´s comments on corporate jets and don't tire of extolting the "virtues" of corporate jet travel but very cleaverly dodge the fact that the extraordinarily high costs are written off against tax breaks which means that all these barges are paid for by you and me and millions of taxpayers.
sparkie624
sparkie624 4
Those execs are the ones who pay the FBO to hangar the bird, the mechanic to work on it, the pilot to fly it, employees of the company who built it... Not to mention all the suppliers who keeps the parts moving, the gas companies that keeps fuel moving as well. When you stop this, you are affecting a lot more than a company exec and his private jet. A Poor man never hired anyone to do his work for him. If the rich do not hire the people, the people will be on well fare. Corporations will survive... If government makes it hard for the to do it, then they are going to cut back. obama and other Liberals do not understand this, obama knows he has power as long as he has control over people. If he keeps supplying them money, they keep supporting him. I feel this is only the beginning. Look through history, other countries were not taken over in a day...
chalet
chalet 1
What you say is quite in line with the vision of the companies that make these jets and the 5 million a year execs, and this is fine, what Obaama is saying is that the special tax break privileges should stop now. So don't be a fool nor get angrynhobody is questioning the right to work of the fuelers, pilots, mechannics, line boys, etc.
bbabis
Bill Babis 1
chalet, you are not thinking things thru. Tax breaks should be given to the tax generators. Government uses taxes to reward or discourage behavior. The use of corporate jets make big companies big money and adds to the tax base as business expands. obama wants to discourage this. What he and his washington posse can't figure out is the math. Would you rather get 50% of 10 million dollars or lower taxes, let business expand, and get 30% of 20 million dollars? Raise taxes and the equation goes the other way. Its not rocket science.
chalet
chalet 1
The expenses related to corporate jets are staggering as this Forbes (a mazazine that is a 100% for corporate America) article shows and it is not fully justified, it is just an excuse for the big shots to travel in a very cushy manner as opposed to mainstream of working people made up of engineers, salesmen, professionals which comprise the remaining 99.9999% of the work force and who have to travel in a most modest manner. Just to show you an example, when there is a big event like the Superbowl and others the amount of "corporate" jets descending upon the locale begs for an explanation, and who pays for all of that; all those expenses are shifted to the corporation which in turn affects profitability and thence amount of taxes paid. This is what President Obama is against.
bbabis
Bill Babis 1
Your example is perfect! As a corporate pilot, I have been there and the Kentucky Derby, Daytona 500, etc etc. You don't know how many hundreds of millions of dollars worth of deals are transacted at these events. Companies take customers there. Not just one or two execs to enjoy the event. Customers treated to such events often sign the deal and the trip expense is minor considering the profit. Profit that they then pay taxes on. As I said, Obama can't figure out the connection and wants to kill another golden goose for the sake of impressing his blindly faithful minions.
chalet
chalet 1
And this is just the tip of the iceberg, then there is the best seats in the house at NHL, NBA, golf, tennis functions, you name it. You don't see this largesse in Japan, Korea, China, UK, France or Germany, do you.
bbabis
Bill Babis 1
Let's make this simple. If I give you a cookie, would you buy some lemonade from me. All the other countries you mentioned do it. China is one of the fastest growing biz-jet markets in the world. Maybe not to our largesse as you say, but then they don't have an economy our size either. Hummm? I wonder why? Oh yeah, thats because they run their counties like obama wants to run ours.
chalet
chalet 1
China´s GNP is soon to catch up with America, anyway the distances there are staggering still their executives fly commercial 99.9999% of the time and economy at that, not first class. Yes there are a number of Chinese billionaires who are buying private jets.
blake1023
blake1023 0
Finally someone who sticks up for aviation on an avaiton website! Well said Sparkie!

I love this fairness stuff. Jimmy Hoffa flies on a private jet with my union dues, and he doesn't any pay taxes. Nobody has a problem with that. Sparkie, Liberals don't want fuel moving it creates "Climate change". Our Celebrity in chief, Obama who just talked about global warming / climate change (terms change everyday) in the state of the union. The next weekend, Michelle jets off to ASE and he's in PBI playing golf. And I'm sure nobody has a problems with our dear leader polluting the environment. But I forgot, its only those rich republicans that pollute the environment with their private jets. Aleast execs can afford their private jet, unlike Obama.
bishops90
Brian Bishop -1
Well said Sparkie. Our friend here won't get it. We've been down that road a dozen times here.
bishops90
Brian Bishop 1
What tax breaks, specifically? The same depreciation schedules that every company gets for major capital expenditures? We've covered this before, the ultimate taxation is not changed, only the timing of the deduction. Taxpayers aren't subsidizing corporate aircraft.
RRKen
Kenneth Schmidt 1
I have to agree Brian, any sort of machinery used to make money, is a business expense...... used in order to produce more revenue.

I get to deduct a per Diem of $55 a day when away from home doing work or laying over. Business expense.

A retailer I know of, uses his fleet of 8 aircraft to ferry employees back and forth for product training. Almost on a daily basis. That cost is deductible under current laws. The practice is also a highly efficient way of containing costs of overnight lodging, travel, and productivity. And it has been proven to increase revenues.

One company who's operations cover a 33 state area, must have transport available 24 hours a day, seven days a week to manage not only incidents, but to keep in contact with customers and regulators.

Yes, there are endless stories pro and con. However, I find it unbecoming of a man who is the Leader [sic] of a major world power, who speaks towards economic development, to resort to what can only be viewed as class warfare. Further, to ignore the economic impact, is akin to living under a large rock.

I believe the word in Yiddish is, chutzpah!
Hueyp
Michael Neilan 1
Let's see here,Private Jet Charter costs $2400 an hour. Air Force One costs $180,000 an hour. I have no idea how much Michelles Jet Runs an hour, but I am sure it is a six digit figure. The people I fly aroung generate jobs and stimulate the economy because they are good at it.

If it were up to me, the ones at the top of our government would only get a C-21(Lear Jet 35). I was taught to lead by example while serving in the military. I say to our leaders.....Lead Follow or Get The Hell out of the way.
zimmerfly
zimmerfly 1
Clearly Forbes is unable to interpret facts and figures correctly when they say "✈ There were 1,466 private jet crashes in 2011, resulting in 263 fatalities"

They need to read researched documentation more thoroughly.

http://www.ibac.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Business-Aviation-Safety-Brief-111.pdf
broudy
Herbert Mallet 1
the main stream media does not care about the hourly rates on those 2 holiday excursions. Only Fat Cats that pay the costs care about rates
dg1941
Damien Gehler 1
Seems really unorganized and only basic facts, many of which I already knew.
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 1
If you do away with depreciation and expense deductions on private aircraft then to be fair you would do the same on cars, airline travel, all capital expenditures, etc. in other words just go to a flat use tax. Ok!
dqwebb
darius webb 1
It's funny that this story popped up today. I was looking at the History Channel yesterday, and they had a special about Air Force One et al. Apparently, whenever AF1 travels, AF2 must travel along in case something happens. They also take 'The Beast' and 2 other presidential limos on a C130, I believe. I'm not sure if anything has changed, but that's a lot of fuel being used at a very high hourly rate.
onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 1
yep.....not to mention the escorts in the air and on the ground
annellandfrank
John Taylor 1
Those procedures have been in effect ever since Pres Reagan was shot. Yes it's over-much....but nothing really new! Too bad such procedures weren't in effect for Pres Kennedy.....
onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 1
I believe Kennedy was an inside job anyway
annellandfrank
John Taylor 2
I couldn't agree more! Oh yes; I've seen the many re-takes,re-makes,re-runs, ad- nauseam..... as have you!! But JFK,RFK,MLK... all similar! Makes no sense to me then.... or now!
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 1
That is back when there were people that were still proactive in the country and especially in politics. Now everyone has sold out for money. Just can't get a good conspiracy going these days.
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
The man does not understand that we are not a Democracy... We are a Republic... Seeing how he does not usually put his hand over his heart when reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, it is no wonder that he does not understand the term "to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God," He certainly does understand the Under God, I doubt he knows what a Republic is and that is a key statement that governs our country.
Tabs
Tabs -4
Keep watching Fox and reading your hoax emails bud...
sparkie624
sparkie624 0
I think you may be missing some points... Maybe instead for watching these threads maybe a history book would help.
annellandfrank
John Taylor 1
And you might try that same history book....rather than cluttering the conversation w/biblical nonsense! Also; we're talking economics here; not your politics!
sparkie624
sparkie624 0
I have... you may want to check on the section by Hitler, Mussolini, Saddam. None of these got stated into power all at once.. They all started just like Obama is now... I do not understand why people can see the history, and ignore... Do the same thing over and over and expect the same results. All 3 above got the Same Start that obama has now... A little at a time, and get the hook into people and then it is too late.
Eric97123
Eric Cothern 1
There were 1,466 private jet crashes in 2011, resulting in 263 fatalities. And there are 19,258 private jets in the world... fact #1 (Overall, 11,261 private jets were registered for use in the United States, and 7,997 in the rest of the world) 7.6% of the jets crashed that year.. that seems kind of high?
Donovan16
Don Thomson 2
You're right, Eric -- that DID seem REALLY high to me, too. So I did some quick checking. Wading through NTSB data isn't my niche, but...

The "fact" actually, was not 1466 private jet crashes in 2011, but 1466 accidents in the category of 'US General Aviation' -- 263 of those 1466 accidents involved fatalities, losing 444 lives.

General aviation is the umbrella term for any operation that does not operate under Parts 121, 135, or 129.

source: http://www.ntsb.gov/data/table10_2012.html

For 2010 (I couldn't easily locate the breakdown for 2011) the category of Executive/Corporate had 5 accidents and zero fatalities.

source:http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2012/ARA1201.pdf

Reviewing the latter report (which is rather lengthy), the overall accident trends over the decade from 2001 - 2010 with some variation year to year, but 2011 was not included. Fatality rates per flight hour have been pretty consistent year to year.
adamsthomasw
Thomas Adams 2
They pulled all U.S. general aviation "accidents" for 2011 (http://www.ntsb.gov/data/table10_2012.html). The article incorrectly reports these as "private jet crashes." Actually, there have only been 153 accidents globally in the last FIVE years (pg. 7, http://www.ibac.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Business-Aviation-Safety-Brief-111.pdf)
TorstenHoff
Torsten Hoff 2
I suspect someone twisted "incidents" into "crashes". I can think of no other reason why the fatality rate would be that low. Getting a wheel stuck in the mud while taxiing will show up in the NTSB database if it is reported.
adamsthomasw
Thomas Adams 3
You can find 2011 on page 21 of this report (http://www.ibac.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Business-Aviation-Safety-Brief-111.pdf). Its further broken down by corporate, commercial, manufacturer, private, etc. In 2011, it looks like there were 15 accidents for US registered business jets, one of which was fatal - the test flight for the G650, which killed four.
bentwing60
bentwing60 2
You might also peruse these numbers from NBAA. The above for corporate are a misnomer as they include all of G.A.
http://www.nbaa.org/ops/safety/stats/
malinoff112
Donny Malinoff 2
Thanks for sharing, this is great!
Donovan16
Don Thomson 2
Ahhh yes! Thanks,very informative source of data! Thanks Thomas.
bishops90
Brian Bishop 2
Nice work.
HunterTS4
Toby Sharp 1
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
You Got it.
blake1023
blake1023 -1
Since Washington is the mood of banning things lately (Guns). Lets just band Part 91, and 135 operators from flying corporate jets, because they're "unsafe". That way a ton of people would lose their job, and Obama can create more dependents, and more democrat voters, and therefore more "stimulus". Its hard to win elections, when you're running against Santa Claus.
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
You have some good points, but off topic... The discussion is tax breaks on Corporate jets... Not how many crash or how many people die each year.
onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 0
ZZZZzzzzz
aklein
Andrew Klein -1
Obummer is nothing but a Marxist & a hypocrite, and alot of Americans, including me, are not interested in anything he has to say!
DAPRON
DAPRON 1
Amen Andrew.
chalet
chalet 2
Move to Mexico or Russia where all the big cats are fleeing (LOL!!!)