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Squawks & HeadlinesSouthwest jet hit runway nose first, investigators say

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Southwest jet hit runway nose first, investigators say

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The Southwest Airlines jet that crash landed at New York's LaGuardia airport on Monday met the runway with its nose gear first, according to federal accident investigators (www.cnn.com) More...

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bbabis
bbabis 4
"Not in accordance with our operating procedures." Now that is priceless. Better yet. Landing the way it did "would potentially have overstressed the nose gear to the point where it would have failed," said Capt. Mark Weiss. Ya think? It took me awhile to stop laughing after reading the story. I guess the PC police will let us laugh about this one since no lives were lost. Do we have the pilot's names yet. The media is probably being careful about that one. Willie Rays Thenose?

Seriously, The CVR and FDR will tell the story on this one also. Until then, we can speculate because that is what we do. Since the nose was up at 32' agl and then down at touchdown, it rules out that he just didn't flare. Most likely it was either a case of too fast and forcing it on to get down and stopped or a horribly mistimed roll-it-on squeeker attempt by lowering the nose right at touchdown to cushion the main gear contact.
vanstaalduinenj
Jon Van Staalduinen 4
Oh I sure the oh sh*t will be on there.
With that said, I love southwest, love flying them and love the business model. Buffalo to Vegas cheaper then a greyhound lol,
jlenihan
John Lenihan 10
I think the spelling should be Willie Rays Denose. Great post. LOL
Av8nut
Michael Fuquay 4
"Not in accordance with our operating procedures." - I know what you mean. I'd like to find an airline where that IS their operating procedure.
preacher1
preacher1 4
"Not in accordance with our operating procedures." Understatement of the year.LOL
preacher1
preacher1 3
He better hope they find something outside the pilot's realm of control. Some are saying wx and I guess that is a possibility; Feds have said that FDR showed nose dropping, which would indicate a controlled drop. I wonder if they found the OH S*** to match on the CVR
panolte
Paul Nolte 3
ROFL. Willie Rays Thenose?
AABABY
FRANK MARTINOLI 2
We love to fly! Does it show?

[This poster has been suspended.]

JetMech24
JetMech24 1
Are you referring to skimping on pilots' pay? Both runway run offs were due to pilot error. Keeping the roof together, I assume that you are referring to the Boeing design that allows the skin to crack and eventually blow out if not found? Which have been found on 737's, 757's, 767's, and 777's.
AABABY
FRANK MARTINOLI 2
Korean Payback??

You probably remember KTVU’s royal eff up with reading obviously fake Asian names for the pilots of the Asiana crash. Names like “Wi To Lo” and “Ho Lee Fuk”.

It looks like a Korean news agency is having some fun at KTVU’s expense. After the landing gear failure of the Southwest flight at LGA they showed this graphic with American pilot names “Captain Kent Parker Wright”, “Co-Captain Wyatt Wooden Workman”.

They even went as far as making up fake names for people to interview. Flight instructor “Heywood U. Flye-Moore” and skeptical passenger “Macy Lawyers”.

Well played Korean TV, well played.
vanstaalduinenj
Jon Van Staalduinen 2
I had to run this through my mind a few times to even visualize how this is possible. Nose first? Never heard of that before, but it does explain how the gear popped right through the floor.
djjamar
Jamar Jackson 2
I never saw a flare on that video. Someone better call unemployment office
HunterTS4
Toby Sharp 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMmHYWjEmkY we like to call it, Riding the horse.
preacher1
preacher1 2
Now that ain't good at all. Somebody I know said that is what happened and I told him I didn't see how a pilot could land a plane like that, basically, without a flare. Sparkie, I'm sorry
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 1
In the light plane world nose gear bending is usually after a bounce. When they bounce they release back pressure instead of holding it and then hit nose gear first (or prop first in a single). Can't imagine hitting nose gear first without a flare at all.
vanstaalduinenj
Jon Van Staalduinen 1
Speaking of place, looks like 738? Figure they repair? The gear really did a number on the flight controls. I agree bad landing, it happens, hope pilot does not get pink slip
WeatherWise
WeatherWise 1
Weren't there t-storms at or in the vicinity of KLGA at the time? Passenger video shows rain blowing by the window. Wind shear/outflow? Flaps at 40...maybe a desire to get on the runway quick to avoid an abort or a hold in bad weather? I can't imagine deliberately not flaring.
chris13
Chris Bryant 1
Two things I learned about landings. 1) Flare so the mains touch first. 2) A go-around is not a bad thing.
siriusloon
siriusloon 1
How about Willie Rays-DeNoaz?
flyboy97222
Jason Rhew 1
WTF 56 seconds is a lifetime on an approach. That's more then enough time for a stable app. SMH that "expert" is only justifying his salary.
vanstaalduinenj
Jon Van Staalduinen 1
Seriously? 72 hours? They must be the pro team. In meantime southwest can dust off a 737-300 from the dessert.
Musketeer1
Musketeer1 1
I have it on good authority it was a nazi-esque chick captain. The rumor mill between the pilots is that FO was flying and looking at a long landing. She most likely then aggressively punched the yoke in an aggressive (teaching*) manner. Time will tell.
vanstaalduinenj
Jon Van Staalduinen 1
Wow they run a tight ship at SW, I like it, no international flights, that means Canada too, If I wanna fly them it's off to Buffalo, or equally efficient "Spirit" airlines out of Detroit, it's amazing how much cheaper they really are compared to westjet or Air Canada
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 1
Considering various pros and cons of the body language of the aircraft in this case and that of Asiana 214 while landing, I am tempted to say if there can be some additional advantage by installing CCTV system longitudinally and laterally(two - star board and port side) located properly at both ends of the strip.
This visual evidence can augment the investigation done on the basis of oral and digital data (FDR and CVR).
The recording of this system can be programmed for self erase after every one hour or two. The ATC tower can also be equipped with CCTV to record every take off and landing to give larger perspective.
joelwiley
joel wiley 3
Sounds like something off Wikipedia to me. Will await corroboration.
preacher1
preacher1 2
Sounds plausible given their penchant for short approach. Phil Rudd makes a comment on another squawk about this in that all could have been normal for approach as SWA is normally hard & fast anyway, and he floated at the last minute and dropped the nose to get on down; we have all had that happen at one time or other but if that be the case, he whammed it a tad too hard. This story that musketeer posts here sounds viable too. Long landing is not in the SWA vocabulary, and if that is for a fact what happened, she punched the yoke a tad hard.
joelwiley
joel wiley 2
I stand corrected. Thanks
Musketeer1
Musketeer1 1
You are right in being skeptical joel. It's only a "Wi-tu Lo" rumor...but it's what I heard from a SWA Captain buddy; and remember, you heard it here first!
preacher1
preacher1 1
They are talking that possibility but have not homed in on it yet, and the FDR does show all normal in the last 4-5 seconds and nosewheel high as it should be. Those last few seconds and why it dropped is what they are looking at.
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 1
NSA probably got it covered. They are recording the world. Probably saw the whole thing from a satellite. Lol
btweston
btweston 1
Forgive my armchair piloting here, but isn't it standard practice to be in a stabilized approach and configured for landing before 1000 feet? If a 3 degree glideslope ends up being about 750 feet/minute, one would think that the final flap adjustment would be made by around a minute and twenty seconds before touchdown, right? My math may be flawed but we're talking about much more than 56 seconds.
skylloyd
skylloyd 1
Not a problem, Boeing AOG will have it in the air in 72 hours.
preacher1
preacher1 1
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
56 secs. is probably enough for some cargo flying, and maybe Southwest. You're right about being stable at 1000 ft., but a good stick and rudder guy should be able to salvage that safely. Like Phil Rudd said in a different post, 1500 hours of CFI/banner towing time is crap compared to 1500 hours Part 135 time.
chalet
chalet 1
Not so fast, more like 6 months if no serious damages to the hull, spars and in and around the cockpit.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Well, this all gonna be real interesting. NTSB says that FDR showed nose up as should be and all normal till about 4 seconds out, then nose dropped for whatever reason.
james801
James Farnsworth 1
I guess the ALAP got the NTSB to keep it hush hush they have not said a whole lot on this one. Good news is SWA now has the Help Wanted sign out.

Where is old Sully or Richard from CNN they could tell us how it went down :-)
AABABY
FRANK MARTINOLI 1
How about a 'nose replacement'? Sawzall and Ductape.
chalet
chalet 1
Ok that could be done in 72 hours, problem is that it won't hold for the first 10 ft. of taxying then back to the draing board (LIMAO!!)
vanstaalduinenj
Jon Van Staalduinen 0
Lol nazi-esk captain. Yes that scenario actaully makes a lot of sense. Now, for a non pilot, can someone explain to me the benefit to southwest for NOT having a long landing? Do you pay per foot the runway used? (Joking I know that ridiculous)
preacher1
preacher1 2
Strictly time. Land short, make the earliest turnout and get to the gate to unload and reload and get the plane back in the air. Equipment utilization is their trademark. Every minute spent on the runway and a longer taxi is a minute lost. I can remember back in the 90's when the made entry into STL. They like to gave ATC heart failure. They were used to TWA pilots landing about halfway don the runway, taking the last turnout and dawdling back up to the terminal. In that length of time SWA nearly had a plane turned and ready to go back out before they even got to the gate.
FedExCargoPilot
FedExCargoPilot -1
bad landing it happens, probably thought he touched, but was still in the air when he lowered the nose. Not a big deal just had to EVAC the plane everyones fine
preacher1
preacher1 2
Not a big deal; busted up nose gear that went up into the electronics bay, decimating part of it; 2 engines; plane out of service for a pretty good while at one of the highest priced locations in the country; and a few million $ in repairs. Nah, not a big deal.
chalet
chalet 1
Did you not see the pictures of the nose landing gear ramming up all the electronics and avionics inside the cabin. Nothing, yeah
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
It will be a big deal if they take the repair costs out of his 'inflated' salary. He'll still be paying it off when all today's graduates student loans are all paid off! 8-)
preacher1
preacher1 2
Give the boy a break Chalet. He's looking at it from the Pilot and Phil Rudd point of view which is "the airline has plenty of money".LOL
chalet
chalet 1
vanstaalduinenj
Jon Van Staalduinen -2
Nose down too fast, guess when you done something 10,000 times it becomes routine, in this case the mains not made contact yet and the nose lowered. Hello 2 million in repairs, no way it can fly out with out serious repairs

[This poster has been suspended.]

james801
James Farnsworth 1
Amber Hill,
You have been reported to FA!!! FYI most of us on this site are not a dumb like you thus we will not fall for your game. Why have you not made any of this money?
wisconsin
wisconsin 0
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Southwest jet hit runway nose first, investigators say

The Southwest Airlines jet that skidded down a LaGuardia airport runway on its nose on Monday touched down on its front wheels first, which then collapsed, according to federal accident investigators.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/25/travel/southwest-laguardia/index.html?hpt=hp_t1