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Squawks & HeadlinesKorean Pilots Avoided Manual Flying, Former Trainers Say

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Korean Pilots Avoided Manual Flying, Former Trainers Say

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As the Asiana Airlines Inc. jet neared Los Angeles International Airport, Captain Vic Hooper told his Korean co-pilot to make a visual approach, meaning he’d manually fly instead of letting automation do the work. The co-pilot froze, leaving them too high and off course,... (www.bloomberg.com) More...

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WtfWtf
WtfWtf 7
What kills me is that here in the good old USA, they make you PAY 100k+ for a college degree, then 75k+ for flight training, then they tell you to get 1500 hours (probably takes 3 or 4 more years) at an instructing job that pays less than minimum wage (15k a year or less), THEN take a job making 25k at a crummy regional airline and then make less than 40k for the next 5 years if you are lucky enough to not get laid off! ALL THE WHILE TRYING TO PAY BACK YOUR STUDENT LOANS. Then you have South Korea, who apparently has airline sponsored flight training, and they teach them how to hack an FMS, but now how to fly the gad damn plane? They really undercut you here these days don't they.
BluegrassFlyer
Randy Michel 2
Yeah the powers that be are forcing aspiring pilots to make a career change. You get a better ROI going to medical school and becoming a doctor.
mhlansdell00
Mark Lansdell 2
Well, you can always move to S. Korea for a few years and learn how to hack an FMS then come back here and be terrified when they tell you to make a visual approach.
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 2
They say, "ignorance is bliss". I never understood its significance till this recent Asiana 214 crash. Till I subscribed to FA my acquaintance with an aircraft was that it is a vehicle that moves, not on ground or roads but in the air that too the way the pilot likes!
And today I am a sad person because I am beginning to understand how and where the pilots as well their trainer and the Airline as a whole blundered. I am not concerned with details, since I will never be the part of prosecutors or (luckily, sic!) the victims.
All these articles and other revelations point and explain such glaring holes in the system that I am amazed that these exist! Despite history of air accidents, SO many advancements in avionics, aviation technology, airline management, and Human Resource science including development programmes and policies.
This article is yet another eye opener encompassing training system, trainee psyche, corporate image and its market value.
..... when will they ever learn? ...... so goes a song
JimSpensley
Jim Spensley 1
As a systems engineer, I know there is a fine line between helpful aids and too much automation. Control engineers face this dilemma frequently. Consider that most automobiles these days have a microcomputer mediating engine speed, braking force, etc. That is, a program that interprets control inputs. This may make driving easier, but also may make it possible for inadequately trained drivers to take the wheel.

The same is true for commercial airline pilots, except their employers -- and not the government -- should be held responsible for their training and the maintenance of the aircraft and system. Every industry segment, manufacturer, airline, and airport gives lip service to safety while cutting every corner to increase the bottom line.
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
That is an understatement.. They totally avoided manual flying all the way down from 500 feet on.
iflyfsx
iflyfsx 1
"I don't need to know this"??? Wrong. If your job title is captain, you are in the cockpit of one of the largest airliners in the world, and you are carrying 300 passengers, yes, you DO need to know how to fly a @#~@#$% airplane.

Even if the AT failed, it was the pilot's responsibility to check the altitude and airspeed.
andriy17
Andriy Tsyupka 1
It was an accident waiting to happen, pilots simply lost their confidence of handling aircraft without autopilot assist, mentioned in another thread, SOP at Korean Airlines was to engage/disengage auto pilot 250' AGL.
virtualpilot
rodney harris 1
thats one think i do is disenge the autopilt once i have the ball visually approaches are hard sometime come in high the simulator can teach u to monitor the code control panel flick swithes and set speed bugs but u must reconize a situation lots of things can happen at fl350.
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 1
And that was too low and too late to bottom out. Right?
Perhaps they(Pilots) thought they were flying a stunt two seater! Eh?
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
At 500 feet, if they had gone full power and gone around they may have had a chance, but even there the chances of getting the engines spooled up in time is very slim. The FADEC is only going to allow the engine to spool up so fast regardless of what the crew does, so they needed to do alot better planning.
onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 1
If this is true they should be banned from flying in US Airspace until they fix this issue.
WtfWtf
WtfWtf 1
Oh, and now apparently if you have 7 years with a company as an FO and then you upgrade to captain, you now start at year 1 captain pay, instead of the year 7 captain pay. pretty much a 15 - 30k difference.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
Where di you get that from? You should be at 7 year pay.
onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 1
I am disapointed in you Phil, you've been to nice lately....So I will help you out......."what do you excpect from a bunch of asian - kamikaze pilots?"
WtfWtf
WtfWtf 1
Pinnacle... Check this blog article.. Apparently it gives Delta more reason to cut salaries too.. http://geekinthecockpit.com/archives/3045
THRUSTT
THRUSTT -1
Changed ur name
WtfWtf
WtfWtf 1
So what? I just figured out how to in my profile.. My full name wasn't here anyway.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
I just got the alert for the response and looked at it, no need to get pissy!!!
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 0
Buddy, this was a daily flight from Seoul to SFO and till the previous day, all 20 to 30 flight DID land safely under same circumstances of "NO ILS".
What does it prove?
All elementary my friend. No ?
onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 2
All I was saying was if the majority of them lack basic piloting skills it's only a matter of time until there is an accident that claims more than 3 lives; it could be in the hundreds....I based my comment off of the article...There is always a warning sign before something major happens.
mhlansdell00
Mark Lansdell 1
I'm not so sure it didn't happen with AF 4 years ago. The similarities are chilling.
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 1
Right on , Buddy.
I ditto.
onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 1
Air France went down in instrument meteorological conditions as supposed to a picture perfect day on short final did it not?
onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 1
I believe Air France was closer to Aeroperú Flight 603