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Squawks & HeadlinesUnited Airlines Pilots Invite Execs to Tour Their ‘LAX Ghetto’

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United Airlines Pilots Invite Execs to Tour Their ‘LAX Ghetto’

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Disgruntled United Airlines pilots have invited their corporate overlords for a meet and greet in the Los Angeles parking lot where many of them sleep. (www.nycaviation.com) More...

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Dubslow
Bill Winslow 13
Is it bad that I read that and think "What a place to live! Cheap *and* you get planes flying over all the time! How awesome is that?"

:P
HunterTS4
Toby Sharp 4
My thoughts exactly....just remember the days when you could barely afford a wet 150 with an instructor going from paycheck to paycheck, humble yourself
JD345
JD345 7
People lose perspective quickly. It's as simple as that. You gotta know what you're getting in to.

Airline pilots not sleeping in a warm bed at home every night? Who could have possibly forseen that?
Kawaiipoint2
Kawaiipoint2 2
youd be amazed how quick it would get old lol
SmokingKoala
of course it is not bad, it´s insane :P
adambear8
adambear8 2
I know I would like to live there with flight aware a camera and a scanner I am set
dmanuel
dmanuel 4
Tom P. as a member of the Class of '81 myself, I remember those comments. However, most of the folks I see trying for right & left seats, were not born back in '81 ( most never heard of the strike). The one possible ( unintended consequence ) that may actually prove to be blessing is the 1500 hour first officer requirement. Those pilots who stick it out may find they are the only game in town and can start applying the economic pressure of supply & demand.
tbpera
Tom Pera 1
not many do remember.... have you read the latest book on PATCO?
jhakunti
one would have to wonder if the airline doesn't lobby the airport to prohibit people from living in the airport parking lot; under the name of security.
planeman33
Donald Rand 2
I worked at LAX and the UA pilots are not the only ones staying in their RVs.A lot of people that only make it home on weekends do it too!
preacher1
preacher1 2
There are a lot of comments here PRO & CON. Bottom line is that the old United Management was basically an expert at saying one thing and doing another. They have been on the bottom rung for a pretty good while as far as customer service and employee treatment went and in/out of a financial hole, hence the merger.You really can't blame the people for how they feel, because in a lot of the cases, $ can't come close to replacing being treated as a human being. Seems like the old Continental was everybody's darling and should have been the dominant player in the merger. It appears that by moving Corporate up to Chicago, that they lost the battle and became part of the United crowd.IMHO
vettdvr
James Corkern 2
Looks like the flt crew is sardines in a can also. How many can you squeeze into a motor home, or how can you spell cheap when the execs get raises. No problem passengers can pay to sit with their kids and for window/isle seats. Congress may step in and ASK the airlines to allow kids to sit free with parents. Perhaps the parents should allow the kids to play at will if they have to pay to have the kids in the seat next to them.
gearup328
Peter Steitz 1
This is a great idea. Hope LAX doesn't stop them. It is much better than the crash pad I stayed at. A smart pilot would buy one of these RV's and use it as a pad for several others. It would pay for itself and you could use it for a vacation too.
tbpera
Tom Pera 4
As an ATC on strike in 1981 I clearly remember the pilots, crossing our picket lines, saying, "if you don't like your job...QUIT!" They could have stopped this stuff then by supporting us...we'd have supported them later...but, oh no ... they were too cheap to support us.... the airlines and government crushed us.... and then crushed the airline industry employees. I don't shed a tear for the pilots but I do care about the many, many attendants, mechanics etc that lost pension money in the bankruptcies OH and to the UA pilots, if you don't like your jobs...QUIT
JD345
JD345 -2
I know pilots that walked away. It can be done. Put your money where your whiny mouth is.

tarbaby
phil gibson 4
Flight crews choose to live in the parking lot or whereever. They choose to not live at their domicile. That is a personal choice. They accepted the job knowing this is a choice they make. What do they want......entitlements? You say the 6,000 per month is guaranteed. That is NOT the net. There is more pay to realize with overtime, night, overwater and also the tax-free per diem plus the travel benefits, medical and so on.
All of us came into this Great career with our eyes wide open(hopefully).....come on! It is a great job. Do it with pride.
We were not hired as Management.
Look what has happened with the Banking industry and Wall Street......there's your problem! Government? Enough said.
That is where we all need to focus!! Keep your eye on the Ball. Focus.....Focus ....Focus!
DashTrash
DashTrash 5
In 4 years at a regional airline, my company closed 7 domiciles. You can't uproot your family every time the schedule farts. You initial statement is crap. I accepted a job into a one leg commute. We accepted I would lose days at home as a result, but it was minimal. Four years later I was home 7 nights per month dealing with a 2 leg commute. Not at all what I chose.
bishops90
Brian Bishop 2
I got laid off three months ago. Wasn't what I chose either. Such is life. Deal with it. I've changed careers 3 times and owned my own company. Ain't no guarantees in life bro'.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 2
Yes, but we all still know what being a pilot entails. It's like the cop crying that their job is dangerous and they want more money. The bottom line is, if you go into a job ignorant of the reality, then you probably shouldn't be doing it.
SmokingKoala
he he he .... c´mon man, seems to me that you think of a pilot´s job as something it used to be in the 50s or 60s :-DDD look at it today! and look properly!!!
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 2
U lost me
preacher1
preacher1 1
I got a serious question for you Dash. You separated yourself at the end, from that bunch that gave me such a bashing a few months ago and I took note of that and am appreciative. I have seen some of your posts in the meantime and I see that the grass hasn't been as green for you as it first looked.#1. Would you be interested in doing a 135 gig steady; coupled with that, would you be interested in relocating to the lower midwest; I am speaking of KFSM/KXNA/KTUL/KOKC area.Reason for asking, I don't know of anything worthwhile open right now, BUT, within the next 6mos to a year, I know of 3 guys that are retiring. All have FO's that will be promoted but there will be hiring for the right side.
$ would probably be in the 75k - 150Krange, depending on experience and equipment. These guys will not be hired off the street. Let me know if you are interested and we'll figure out the best way to get together.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Well said my friend.
rebelx4xchrist
Paul Smith 2
I would probably sacrifice a lot to be in these guys shoes. You don't fly to be rich, you fly because you love it. And if you don't fly for that reason then this is the wrong job for you and your gonna be miserable.
fenderbass
Allan Waxman 2
I'm surprised at the lack of support for the pilots. The executive that got a $10 mil bonus is a greedy blood sucker but think about a tired pilot flying around the country. Not a pleasant thought. WE get into an airplane and trust the guy to fly this 50 ton behemoth not knowing anything about him. I think I'll take a hard look at flying somewhere from now on. If this situation exists at United then it's duped elsewhere as well. I just bought a new hybrid luxury car. I think I'll drive it more to longer distances, let the pilots and airline execs duke it out without me.
slgordon3
slgordon3 4
I have a lot of sympathy for the veteran United pilots. When these guys signed on with United they were promised things like pensions, only to have them wiped out years later. That kind of thing would be disastrous for most families, all your financial planning would go out the window. I guess that there is another side to the coin though--some would argue they needed to wipe that stuff out in order for the company to survive. I can see the arguments from both sides, but that must hurt to get your pension wiped out and then see the CEO get a $10M bonus.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Allen: I don't necessarily think it's a lack of support per se, but for this specific issue they have defintely gone about it the wrong way and in doing so, have not garnered a lot of sympathy.
Moviela
Ric Wernicke 2
Give a man a 200 million dollar piece of capital equipment, 400 souls, and ask him to hurl it through the air at 500 MPH. Then have him sleep in a camper at the airport, just like the urban outdoorsmen parked all over nearby Venice. Then pay him the princely sum of 6K a month.

The man who collects my garbage makes almost double that. The Airport cops that harass motorists in the loop at the terminal to force them into over priced parking lots earn more than 100K/yr.

If pilots want to call attention to their paultry pay, perhaps a tip jar on the cockpit door might spur management to start managing and run the business and let well paid pilots fly the planes.
bishops90
Brian Bishop 5
Really. Your garbage man and the airport security guy both make six fig's?..? Really?? What ever
BTW the figures I used, if you bothered to read, was for 4 year narrow body FO . A 10 year NB Captain is more than double that. And those are just the guaranteed hrs. You're gonna have to do way better than this in these forums to be taken seriously here.
preacher1
preacher1 2
get him!!!!!!
ljlintner
Loren Lintner 6
I lived in Southern California for nine years. At the peak I only made 6k a month and in no way did I live in squaller. Everyone has choices is life, so don't play the victim. You want the 100K that that Police Officer makes, apply to the LAPD Academy.
gretzcorp
John Nielsen 1
OMG! Would it be out of the question for the pilots to support local LAX hotels and get a room like the rest of us?

Man up and stop the wining!
tarbaby
phil gibson 1
in addition to this mess........seniority is everything. Times are a'changing! Just think what the next 20 years will bring.
Aviation will truly be Global.....domestic aviation I'm afraid will be limited. The best days are truly behind us. The greed and the Gov't took all the fun out of it. If I had it to do over again.......I wouldn't change a thing.....except have a little more fun!
TWA55
Who are these pilots, and if they are that responsible? I'll be flying someone else. As for these CEO's, the______w/ them.It's no wonder UAL and others are where they are, these so called execs I think need a brain transplant and a real pay cut till things are running as they should. I guess the glamor days are over, and so is the glamor pay and life style unless you live at the top. Selfish and greedy, we are truely on the right path. It's only a matter of time till the ship(s) sink.
bingoair
Markus Wolff 1
I've been to Lot "E" these guys got it good. Asking the airline exec's to come down and "visit" their Getto is silly, its as if the airline exec's force them to live in their RV's. Shit man, drive that R.V. down to the beach its only 2 miles away. Anyway the glorious life of an airline pilot, so glad I got into air ambulance flying.
tarbaby
phil gibson 1
Camper Corral!! Lots of folks do it year round! What's so bad about that. At least they have no park fees? Big deal!
jkirk420
jkirk420 1
Wait a second....are they seriously blaming this on the regional carriers? Is there anything that isn't the fault of the regionals? Their second divorce? Their ED? The Patriots losing the Super Bowl? I'm all for recapturing scope, but GMAFB. This argument is getting old and played out. Retire already so I can move up.
johnhowardgrace2
John Grace 1
United (+Continental) is coming through a time of massive change. Some things could be better. Some things must become better. As a rider, I'd like to think that the new United is sorting through the could be and must be items and listening to the concerns of team mates and clients. Some folks gripe too much while others don't ever let you know what they think. It's one of the tasks of enlightened management to understand whats going on and make improvements where possible and explain the decision when it's not.

Y'all need to keep yourselves and us safe. If you can build a better airline with improving morale at the same time, that's great!

(Please avoid using divisive terms like Ghetto! I thought we'd grow past that stuff by now. )
gretzcorp
John Nielsen 1
Wow! UAL caused the Patriots to lose the Super Bowl. I thought that was Belachek's fault !!
tarbaby
phil gibson 1
I'm former Airline....but I tell you what....I wish I had an RV in the parking lot where at least I could put my stuff, instead of all your shit in a crashpad or in a car. Many of the RV pilots, lucky enough to have an RV, are just a bunch of whiners. I wonder do they have any beer or liquor in those RVs.?? Mmmmm. Fun Times!
slgordon3
slgordon3 1
Man, that is a lot of campers. Some of em do look kind of nice from the air!
gearup328
Peter Steitz 1
Absolutely! I think it's a great idea. Much better than the 6 bunk bed place I stayed at for awhile.
TXCAVU
Very nice. Those campers have more, privacy, space and amenities than most LAX crash pads. Being in a lit/patrolled/camera parking lot means there is a measure of security. After all that there is the commute, to anywhere in the Los Angeles basin. FedEx pilots who commute have a room full of lounge chairs.
tarbaby
phil gibson 1
Peter....those were the days! Fun times! It certainly was an adventure. I would do it all again....and not change a thing!
barney577
Who dumps the LAV's on these Rv's ? hmmm, interesting.
Moviela
Ric Wernicke 1
LAX is in the City of Los Angeles. The city has a treatment plant next to the airport and accepts motorhome waste at a nominal fee. The airport lot E is for airport employees only and does have a monthly charge for parking, about $60. The airport provides gated security and includes a shuttle bus to the terminals. The bus route does not mix lot E patrons with air passengers, less the pilots be near the unwashed.
tarbaby
phil gibson 1
60 bucks a month? What a great deal......especially for California.....do they have hookups as well?
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
Wonder when Border Patrol's going to take a run through that lot. $60 is a cheaper than rent...
tarbaby
phil gibson 1
And they can write the RV's off of their taxes as well.....I wish I had that choice. I do believe Ghetto is a bit harsh.
tarbaby
phil gibson 1
Also, I feel sure that some of them are Crash Pads.......so the owner has a positive cashflow for their RV.....being paid for! Wow....what a deal.
bishops90
Brian Bishop 1
According to willflyforfood a 4 yr mainline United FO gets about $6,000 / month guaranteed. That ain't exactly "ghetto-esque". It's a choice, if its so bad, go somewhere else or get a "real" job. I mean no disrespect at all here. I certainly do respect what professional pilots do, but the whining about exec bonuses and the typical union lines about the oppressed and downtrodden is just getting old. It's a business people. Supply and demand, market forces, etc, etc,. Yeah, flying modern jet aircraft is a complex, sophisticated line of work. But running a $400 BILLION business is something VERY few people in the WORLD are skilled enough to do. It's just the way life is.
FedExCargoPilot
Agree and disagree, I think there are many pilots who would sacrifice anything just to fly for an airline, so if they don't like it they can leave. Problem is a pilot is a very narrow career there are not very many other high pay professions that pilots can transfer into. Its pretty much limited to a flight instructor. Management should however take a look into this because pilots living like this can result in safety hazards. As far as Jeff's paycheck, maybe mgmt. could cut their pay by a few million dollars so me as a customer doesn't have to pay a ridiculous amount of money to fly to Indianapolis!
Apothis86
Apothis86 3
Haha, I loved your last sentence there. What a joke. Thanks for the laugh.

The only thing most of these airline management types are "skilled" at is awarding themselves handsome bonuses while simultaneously running the businesses they have been chosen to "lead" into the ground.
JD345
JD345 2
United had $38 billion in revenue in 2011. Spell out how you would have appropriated all of it.
preacher1
preacher1 2
He did say VERY FEW people and you did say MOST, so that would mean that there are SOME that ARE skilled. It must also be remembered that these guys at the top of the food chain are not in a vacumn, but are there at the pleasure of and benefit to the stockholders, to make them money as well. Some of them ARE just hired asassins put in there a short while just to enrich those stockholders and themselves.
lionudakis
Hired assassin is an interesting way to put it. I took a good paycut, to 'facilitate returning the company to a profitable state', the new ceo, who was 'gunna turn it around' sold off our parts, you know, the stuff we do business with. Took a huge bonus for a good job raising the bottom line (from pawning all our shit), went on his merry way back to where he crawled out of, excuse me, took time off from. So assassin is about right, slip in, slip out, dirty work done, folks back at Langly clapping and high fiving, (and counting money).
bishops90
Brian Bishop 1
Tell you what friend. Download the United annual report and explain what it all means. You think the FAR is (are) complicated? Again, most of you guys have no clue what it is like to run even a small, in-state business, much less a global corporation. No freaking clue.
jhakunti
there are many ways to get rich flying. some pilots are just too lazy to get there. there is this flight instructor in the west coast who makes 6 figures teaching people how to fly their newly purchased airplanes. he also flies someone's private jet for them. other guys created flight llc's and make six figures managing bay area tech people's planes. its all about how ambitious the person is. of course the lazy underachievers are the ones with the most complaints.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Jayden, it is that way in any business/job, human nature I guess. The only real bad thing is that thru consolidation and various things, that these crash pads or ghetto's are needed in the first place. Not all that many years back, most Airlines had a requirement that a Pilot live within so many miles of his base, but as Airlines consolidated and no longer wated to be burdened with relocation $, Pilot Bases dwindled, and DH started being allowed, crash pads and the like came into being. It is getting time that the Airlines address the problem they inadverdently created
FedExCargoPilot
I think the many days of getting rich flying is over, its more spending money than anything else.
genethemarine
Gene spanos 1
Hey FedEx - Thanks for trying to keep them higher after 10 pm over our collar communities - and here in PR, IL. Fly Quiet just became a volunteer state senate approved Resolution - Bill SR 690. Now for the Federal Bill as well - " The Homeowners Aviation - Fly Quiet Act ".
Semper Fi
Gene
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 3
Those noisy sims...
gearup328
Peter Steitz 1
I live about 18 miles to the NE of KIND and hear you guys all the time. You're my alarm clock even if you take off to the SW I hear the rumble of TO Thrust.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
I was saying you don't hear FedExCargoPilot's rumble.
gearup328
Peter Steitz 1
No you don't, thrustt. You only hear those sweet engines.
tarbaby
phil gibson 1
What is there to rumble about? FedEx is a really Good company to fly for! Wish I had been there during my Airline career.
eagle763
John Hale 1
I tell you right now I would love to be guaranteed 6k a month. Thats double what I make in a month and I have worked this job for 10yrs. Is it my choice to stay here, yes. What I have to look at is taking care of my family of five so I need to work. I know it cost alot of money to get trained to be an airline pilot. I wanted to do it so I know the cost. The problem I see and have seen for years are most pilots think they are mistreated and under paid and they just don't understand they have the best job in the world. How hard is it to find a motel 6 or best western for one night and pay 65.00 vs sleeping in your car? I would be more than happy to take the place of a pilot who makes 6k amonth guaranteed.
boeingdr
bruce forbes 1
Ur an idiot. Don't comment on what I make just what I have to put up with. Obviously you don't work for an airline. But I am sure you are one of those pilots out there that would take my job for half the money and ruin our profession. Get a different job.
SmokingKoala
the attitude of u.s. ceos, aviation or not, is selfexplanatory. this system is so sick that in the long run it will be destroyed - from within or from outside.
99NY
99NY 3
I dont know about "finding a Best Western/Motel 6". If the airlines are run anything like the railroads, then there are only a few places the airline will approve for its pilots to pay for their laydown hours. My buddy is locomotive engineer for CSX and the places he's made to stay in by company policy are in some more than seedy areas where he's actually had to put his bedposts into his boots before he goes to sleep to keep people from stealing them. While the cut-rate hotels around airports arent anywhere near as bad as those around railyards, I still think most of the cut-rate places would be worth a second thought compared to a car/RV.
bishops90
Brian Bishop 0
What "system" are you referring to?
garycharli73
GARY BILLINGS 0
The problem goes back to unnecessarily high fuel costs. Thank Obama and the liberal tree huggers. Let them drill and run pipelines. A 50% cut in fuel costs would free up a lot of money to better compensate deserving pilots.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
You know, Obama must be one hell of a president!!!
Despite the topic, you guys always bring him up...
gearup328
Peter Steitz 0
Lots of pissed off pilots on this blog. Seniority rules! Gotta put in your time. Pay, vacations, retirement are one thing. Changing domiciles comes with the territory. Choose to commute and crash pad or move. I moved--5 times in 14 years. That was my choice--I was mobile. Lots of you are not--family, homes, attachments are all in the way. Denny Fitch, the United Captain who came into the cockpit to help in the Sioux City UAL232 crash said---"I don't go to work. I go to fly." Something to remember next time you think of another career.
preacher1
preacher1 1
111 died but thanks to those in the cockpit, 185 lived, when it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that there would be no survivors.