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Squawks & HeadlinesFrontier forces quadriplegic man off plane

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Frontier forces quadriplegic man off plane

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FORT COLLINS, Colo. — A quadriplegic Colorado man says he was humiliated after he was forced off a Frontier Airlines plane because a pilot said it wasn't safe for him to fly. (www.msnbc.msn.com) More...

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grinch59
Gene Nowak 0
Sounds like the pilot needs retraining, especially since the passenger has flown with Frontier before. Can't the individual airlines get their acts together? I can see a problem transferring between airlines, but maybe it is time to develop uniformed handicapped regulations for the airlines. Show your "placard/universal airline ID" and you are OK to board, regardless what the pilot thinks!!! The handicapped passenger, like myself, assumes total liability for not being able to deplane in the event of an emergency.
sheka
mark tufts 0
frontier needs to retrain their pilots when it comes to quads as they have the right to travel by plane also
vincentvan
vincentvan 0
yeah they do Karl, if they're good enough to make the cut...
where2sir
Jeff Grana 0
No one has rights. Rights are fake, made up by people to institute order and structure. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWiBt-pqp0E for George Carlin's opinion.
homedepo20
Ronnie Mc 0
As "Cynic-537088" said in the comments "The captain has a legal responsibility to all passengers on the airplane. Anyone who cannot evacuate themselves in a crash or whom might impede others should not be allowed to board."
JBReinertsen
@Ronnie; you are correct in that statement. While the general public might see this instance as one for "retraining", the CA used his final authority and experience as an airline professional to deny boarding. It was more than likely the he/she did not want to impede the safety of others in the event of an emergency. FLying has, and always will be, a privilege in the US.
jicaro
Agree with Ronnie and Joshua:
Captain and or PIC has the final say, though I do know on certain instance special acomodations can be made, if done with time, and crew is pre-briefed on this...But I must restate to all the ones in the office up front have the final say
AgentX
"Frontier eventually arranged for Morris and his family to take the next flight, and the pilot on that plane had no issues with transporting him."

Retrain every employee not just the pilots, the rest is bull-crap....
bobbypilot
Robert Gomez 0
On this case Mr Morris was with his family who after a personal brieffing about emergency evacuation for a disabled person and they are not seated on an emergency exit it's ok.
A different case scenario if Mr Morris was alone.
Just use the less used thing on this days...."common sense"
Av8nut
As an architect, I have to comply with the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) in my building designs. It is part of the International Building Code, whether I agree with it or not. Why can't they come up with some sort of international aviation standards for those with disabilities?
burnbabe
burnbabe 0
pilot should fall down gangway breaking neck becoming quad suing airline raising employer's awareness leading to change [/cynicism off] :)
cheers,
burn C6/7 (typing w right thumb taking ages)
JBReinertsen
Score one for Karl
JBReinertsen
Burnbabe/Av8nut: its a completely different animal when it comes to evacuating an airplane during an emergency. The employers are all well aware of this. Its not like a firedrill where one needs to vacate a potentially burning building, and as such is not required to comply with ADAs standards.
ExCalbr
Victor Engel 0
If he sues and wins, what are his damages? He has not been damaged, as far as I can see. Inconvenienced? Yes. He is owed nothing, though. He was owed a trip on a suitably equipped aircraft. That is apparently what he received.
jicaro
Agree w/ Robert GOmez, again arrangements were made and all were briefed, also for AgentX62, agreed, all should be trained, you are right and my apologies
ExCalbr
Victor Engel 0
@burnbabe, how is it that your post gets sorted to the end? Very strange.
burnbabe
burnbabe 0
@ExCalbr, as opposed to Frontier this website does treat its users with some decent sense of proportion [/irony off]
burn

(let's see where this one lands..)
burnbabe
burnbabe 0
lmao

lolz, burn
sparkie624
sparkie624 0
Legally, it is the Pilot in Commands Final decision. It is not my position to say, but I can see alot of people that really should not fly due to an assortment of reasons. In an emergency how can they get out. I can see that it is not fair for them to be denied flight, but on the other hand is it fair to put them at risk of flying. If he had been on the Hudson with Captain Skully could he had gotten off in time without endangering the lives of others. On another view point, what about over weight. People who are so obeise that they cannot fit through an emergency exit. One lady on an emergency exit (forget which airline) had a divert and emergency exit at DCA. She got stuck in the emergency and rescue crews had to remove her. Had this been a life or death situation, how many others would have died with this stuck FAT person in the exit with no other way out. There are many sides to this. I certainly think they should be denied seating in an exit row, but as for being allowed to board period, that is the final decision of the Pilot In Command. Don't Like it. That is the way it is. It follows under the topic of Federal Law.
vincentvan
vincentvan 0
karl..you missed it, I was agreeing with you.. it was subtle, I'll admit:)
beilstwh
beilstwh 0
The pilot was a bigot and should be fired, not retrained.
JBReinertsen
Huh? Its not about the airline, its about the safety of the flight(meaning people on board) in the event of an emergency. The CA made a judgment call and stuck by it as he/she felt fit. How is this so hard to understand?
jicaro
@ beilstwh

IMHO, were do you get the PIC /CA being a bigot, not to judge, and maybe I am not understanding you, but it seems you have no CONCEPT of the responsability, of The Pilots, or crew> should be fired WOW, really I do not get why you are saying that
pilotbrant
pilotbrant 0
I do feel bad for the gentleman not being able to fly on the plane, but for whatever reason, good or bad; right or wrong the decision was made. I have made wrong decisions in my life and I bet most of you who have made a comment have as well. I am not saying what was do, is right or that the pilot should not have some sort of action taken by his employer. Just remember that the next time you make a mistake hopefully the media doesn't get ahold of the story.
euronorb
euronorb 0
Thank god It wasnt a quadriplegic muslim or It would be all about race, and not the handicap.
chalet
chalet 0
Frontier Airlines is losing money, more than the rest, and when all its employees from chairman, CEO down to the apron sweepers should be trying hard as hell to take extremely good care to those who feed them, the passengers but instead some stupid captain and/or FA does something like this the first thought that crosses your mind is: f...k U Frontier, may you drown in your own crap, I will take my business where real human beings care about quadriplegic passenger or any passenger with a dissability first and before all others.
JBReinertsen
I find it troubling at times when the general public doesn't take the advice and opinions of aviation professionals into account on matters like these. Flying on a plane its not the same as riding a bus. The responsibilities, training, and requirements of each and every crew member is far more demanding than any other field of transportation that exists today. When situations like these arise, they shouldn't be the first ones to point fingers in disgrace. For example, if one does not have experience as a doctor, can they honestly criticize that professional during a live and death procedure?
jasscarff
James Scarff 0
Jeff Grana--Yeah, no one has rights. They are indeed imposed by society. This is news? Go back to to college and read Rousseau's "The Social Contract." We do impose order on society by artificial means. They're called laws, and one of them that was passed at the federal level protects people who have disabilities. Whatever this guy's story is, these regulations gives a lot of people who have been injured in service to their country a much better way of conducting their lives. Gotta problem with that?

And George Carlin is/was an arrogant moron.
airclaxon1
Paul Claxon 0
I flew with my quadriplegic cousin a few years back with SouthWest Airlines,bought tickets in economy . Being her condition, they put us up front in First Class. We didn't ask for that.
airclaxon1
Paul Claxon 0
I had a instructor like this egghead when training for my commercial. He is the type that will probably fly his aircraft into some mountian somewhere.
JBReinertsen
WN has a two class cabin config now?
JBReinertsen
@airclaxon: its a shame you missed some good regs why studying for your CPL, but here's one that should have been asked during your exam. The part 121 version follows:
CFR 14, FAR 121.533 (Operating Rules, Air Carriers)
(d)   Each pilot in command [Captain] of an aircraft is, during flight time, in command of the aircraft and crew and is responsible for the safety of the passengers, crewmembers, cargo and the airplane.
jicaro
@ JOSHUA:
Well put Bro, Well put, some people have no sense what they are talking about, yet speak like the Great all knowing demigod of of the skies.

You know it is sad to defamate someone, or even an entity, with out understanding the where's, the whats, or the roll's one plays in the line of one's profession, yet judge someone with such authority.

Joshua again thanks never thought putting that up, but you hit the target perfectly
vincentvan
vincentvan 0
I'm not sure why everyone has their bloomers in a bind over this one. I've been flying for a major US commercial airline for over a quarter of a century and have carried dozens of para/quadripelegics. There are specific guidelines for accomodating these folks onboard the aircraft, including specific seats where they are to be accomodated, etc. All of these are spelled out clearly in company policy. The safety of a plane load of passengers is affected by many factors.Examples of this include folks who are hard of hearing, overweight, high strung etc. It is my duty as pilot in command to make the final decision as to who may remain on the aircraft prior to departure. Yet, if I were to remove folks based on disability alone, when my company spells out specific guidelines for accomodating these folks, my guess is that I would have worked for many more carriers and my place on the senority list would be towards the bottom. Commercial aviation is a business and I am primarily responsible for the safety of my aircraft, but i am also repsonsible to carry out the policies of my employer. I don't know who all the experts on here fly for, but in my world, for the carrier I fly for, being a quadripelegic is not, alone, grounds for not being allowed on board the aircraft. I won't second guess the pilots decision in this case, as I wasn't there. There may have been factors beyond the disability. If I were to make such a decision, though it is within my authority, I would have to answer many questions from my superiors. I'd like to fly for whatever carrier Joshua flies for, though I probably lack the proper sense of self importance, or testosterone level.
burnbabe
burnbabe 0
@all: nice to see (read) the general trend leads toward rather supporting ppl with disabilities by commercial pilots! life is hard enough already and you don't want to be as harschly reminded of this as by that, what did one call him, egghead lacking "proper sense of self importance, or testosterone level." nicely put, vincentvan.
JBReinertsen
@vincent: so self importance at all, simplying trying let people know that the CA of the flight didn't like the given conditions for this passenger and denied boarding. If it happens, it happens. But there's no need for the mass public demanding bodily harm and a change of employment for it.
JBReinertsen
*so->no self importance. Typo on my behalf
ExCalbr
Victor Engel 0
@airclaxon1, I wasn't aware Southwest ever separated classes of passengers. They've always been general boarding as far as I can remember.